To think cyclists should allow cars to overtake them?

[Twitterqueen]

If you're cycling and you know a car is behind you and wants to overtake, should you let them / facilitate the overtake or deliberately refuse and shout 'wait' at the car? When the road ahead is straight and clear for well over half a mile, when the car has been patiently waiting for a safe, straight stretch, there is no other traffic but the road is just that little bit too narrow for the car to want to do it without some kind of affirmation from the cyclist, ie stop pedaling for a few seconds and move a bit closer into the side of the road?

Wilkommemen, there is no way that a cycle is as much a lethal weapon as a car. If I run into a car at 20mph on my bike I'm not going to kill the car driver. Even if I hit a pedestrian I'm unlikely to kill them. I only know of one pedestrian killed by a cyclist in the last five years in the uk.

If a car hits another car, a cyclist or a pedestrian they're quite likely to kill them.

Also you are legally allowed to drive at less than 60mph on a motorway. It might not be advisable to but you can. I believe lorries legally are limited to 55-58mph. So they're not even allowed to do 60mph.

When I'm towing my caravan I'm limited to 60mph max and if there's a slight downhill section on the motorway I wouldn't do 60mph while towing. Probably 55mph max as at 60mph downhill with high sided vans passing me closely I'd run the risk of the van snaking.

"Banning private cars won't make much difference, there are hardly any on the road in London as it is, they are mostly cabs."

I'm not sure where you're driving Wilkommen, but that's definitely not the case in the parts of Zone 1 I frequent. I wouldn't want to guess at the split between private cars and cabs but it certainly isn't 'hardly any', as the difficulty of finding parking, and the expensive parking garages in central london, would testify.

Cyclists are not what's holding up the traffic in busy cities. I cycle across central Edinburgh and also commute by car some of the time. I get there as quickly or more quickly by bike during rush hour. When I am held up in the car, it's by volume of cars, not slow cyclists.

I'm envious of the speed cyclist can travel around d busy towns and cities its much quicker than walking or motoring and a lot cheaper than the latter

as the difficulty of finding parking, and the expensive parking garages in central london, would testify.

The difficulty in parking bears no relation to commuter drivers, parking restrictions are in place because residents need to park somewhere. It is a densely populated city and most zones 1-3 now have parking restrictions to encourage drivers to use public transport, which mostly they do.

Cyclists would do everyone a favour by getting on the tube or a bus along with everyone else.

Cyclists are not what's holding up the traffic in busy cities

I was talking about London, every city has its own demographic, road layout and potential solutions but London is particularly large and drivers only do it if they have to or are fairly local.

Shaska I think people forget that people actually live in London and have a right to go and visit their friends or go to the shops in their car occasionally. It's not fair to expect the whole of central London to be cleared so that cycling can occur. One cyclist takes up a lot more road space than people like to admit. If they are taking up a whole lane then a car with four passengers would take up less space than five cyclists.

WillkommenBienvenue of course people live in London, and if they choose to cycle around the city then they have as much right to do so as they do to travel by car, or bus, or anything else. Your argument that cyclists should be banned makes no sense, because cyclists are not the cause of the majority of congestion in London.

people actually live in London and have a right to go and visit their friends or go to the shops in their car

Other people living in London (or even the same people) have a right to go and visit their friends or go to the shops on their bike.

But you want to take that right away from them.

So if we're in the business of restricting people's "rights" to use the vehicle of their choice, maybe we should look at which type of vehicle causes most problems.

I can't even remember the last time I was held up by a cyclist. When I am it's usually only for a few seconds while I wait for a safe opportunity to pass. Is it really a big issue?

Very occasionally I'll get stuck behind some Lance Armstong wannabes who will ride three wide so people can't get past.

I ride regularly. I am also a qualified ride leader.

This thread is depressing.

Riding in London, I ride past all the traffic. I certainly don't hold it up. Even if a bus is stuck behind me for 20 seconds, I catch up with the traffic at the next junction and leave the bus behind. Filtering is permissable, but I always overtake on the right rather than overtake.

Primary position - to keep cyclists safe, and motorists too! When correctly used, primary postion is telling you it is NOT safe to overtake. When it is safe to allow traffic behind me to pass, I will pull into secondary position. If it is single track, or weaving around parked cars, etc, I do slow or stop to allow traffic to pass where it is safe to do so.

I cycle with my twins, they are 9. They've been riding bikes since they were 2 and on the road since about 6 or 7. I cannot believe how many people try to cut them up, or drive straight at them around traffic calming measure, trying to force them into the gutter. They are extremely proficient and won't wobble. But many cyclists do need SPACE! There is a new campaign running, - SEE cyclist THINK horse!

Riding two abreast - if I am leading 8 cyclists, and they are all riding single file, you have the equivalent of a very long HGV to try to overtake. By keeping my group close together, you can overtake once it is clear.

Rather than *undertake

at This week's "Did that seem clever in your head?" Award goes to this piece of genius.

I think the biggest problem is that a lot of road users resent cyclists being on the road. Their attitude is never going to be great if they think that people on bikes shouldn't be allowed.

I know some cyclists are idiots too btw.

I have just read the whole thread.

As a driver, a cyclist (I commute to work 7.5 miles across London about 3 x a week) and a pedestrian, I feel well qualified to comment on this. My DSs also cycle (DS1 who is 10 would like to be Bradley Wiggins / Chris Froome one day).

Lots of people have made excellent points (esp Viva), and I don't want to repeat all that. My thoughts are:

1. There are a lot of very poor drivers AND cyclists AND also pedestrians who do not pay attention and are generally very entitled. People (all classes) need to be more considerate.

1. Mums in 4x4 cars are the worst on my commute. I live near Wandsworth and see a lot of them.

1. Pedestrians - DO NOT cross the road when it is green for traffic - look for cars and bikes. I nearly crashed when trying to stop last week in wet conditions when an idiot walked right out in front of me. She was 100% in the wrong, and did apologise, but shouldn't have done it!!!

1. Cyclists - as others have said - use high vis and bike lights. I am staggered how many don't. If you are the mum who was cycling down Balham Park Road last Thursday night c1830, please tell me you have sorted this out....your c5 yo was almost impossible to see, as were you and the other child on your bike. No lights and no helmets. I was cycling at about 10-15 mph, and narrowly avoided hitting your child - because I was cycling slowly and carefully. Had I been in a car doing 30mph, things could have been different.

1. I constantly tell my children to be aware that many people are idiots out there, and remind them about road sense until I am blue in the face.

1. Occasionally I am overtaken by a bike who then turns left in front of me, but generally in London traffic I don't hold people up. Bikes are a much quicker form of transport in this part of the world. I don't like cycling in central London, but Willkommen - your idea that banning bikes in central London is unworkable and daft. 4 bikes waiting at traffic lights takes up a lot less space than 4 cars.

And finally, OP I do hope you have got the message. YAtotallyBU. You may be in the US....I don't know. It isn't clear. If you are it doesn't matter. James Cracknell suffered terrible injuries on his bike due to an idiot driver...and that was in the US.

OK Wilkommen so your 'hardly any' private vehicles is now 'hardly any except those owned and used by the multitude of people who live in central London'.

I am not suggesting 'the whole of central London to be cleared so that cycling can occur.' I am responding to your opinion that we should ban cycling in Zone 1 with an opinion of my own - namely that banning private vehicles would do more to lessen the traffic. Not suggesting that it is done, as personally, being largely a cyclist/public transport user, I don't find it that much of a problem, and I'm very much a 'live and let live' type.

"I'm possibly being a bit thick here, but if it's a safe, straight stretch of road with no other traffic, why does the cyclist need to move over at all?"

Quite. If there isn't enough room to overtake easily, there isn't enough room full stop. If you are expecting the cyclist to move over to cycle in the gutter or in the hedge, or wave you past because you can't see clearly, they it isn't safe to overtake.

For those cyclists who think they are getting through London faster than buses and cars - that's exactly why you cause congestion - you slow other vehicles down because you clog up the lights and junctions. It's no biggie to me because it's only a matter of seconds anyway and now that half of London is on a 20mph zone it really makes very little difference but don't say it's faster because the cars are clogging up the roads. I used to dash through London in a car but those days are over because of increased use of cycles.

5 cyclists takes up a lot more road space than one car with 5 people in it and 50 cyclists takes up a lot more space than a busload of cyclists without their bikes.

on yer bus I say.

shaska I think the residents of London have a right to decide whether they run a car or not and should not have to make way so that cyclists from outside can use their streets in order to get to work about 3 milliseconds quicker than a bus.

Cycling does not reduce congestion on roads.

Why do you think all the cyclists are "from outside"? My BIL lives in London and cycles to work/dropping child to nursery/the shops in London, what is he supposed to do under your New World Order? Give up his bike?

My only experience of London traffic is a regular bus trip from Finsbury park tube to archway/highgate.

I don't cycle it because I come into London on the train and it would be too much hassle to ring the bike.

Butif I lived locally and had to make that journey I'd be on the bike. I often have to wait ten minutes for a bus, then its 15 mins at least on the bus crawling along. The bus isn't been held up by bikes. Its been held up in queues of traffic/cars and traffic lights with more queues of cars. I could bike it in ten mins easily.

Wilkommon........I repeat, live and let live. More consideration all round would be a good thing.

'It's no biggie to me because it's only a matter of seconds anyway ' and then 'I used to dash through London in a car but those days are over because of increased use of cycles.'

???

You were right the first time, it is only a matter of seconds. And while you wait at the traffic at the next junction, I will already be through it. I can get from Waterloo to Oxford street in 11 minutes. In a car, I would be lucky to do it in twice that time. I'm certainly not holding up the car - he is still on the bridge while I'm at Trafalgar square!!

Sunna you are a dangerous driver YOU should not be on the roads.

40 years driving, only one accident, I was stationary at the time so not to blame. Not so much as a speeding fine.

I am a very safe driver but that doesn't stop me noticing those who aren't and many of them are cyclists.

As has been said people can buy bikes and take to the road with no training or traffic awareness. They are not even insured to compensate those hurt by their actions or to pay for repairs of any damage they cause.

Doesn't seem fair to me. I'm not a great believer in rights with no responsibilities.