To think cyclists should allow cars to overtake them?

[Twitterqueen]

If you're cycling and you know a car is behind you and wants to overtake, should you let them / facilitate the overtake or deliberately refuse and shout 'wait' at the car? When the road ahead is straight and clear for well over half a mile, when the car has been patiently waiting for a safe, straight stretch, there is no other traffic but the road is just that little bit too narrow for the car to want to do it without some kind of affirmation from the cyclist, ie stop pedaling for a few seconds and move a bit closer into the side of the road?

cyclists have as much right to the road as car drivers. You need to think of them as a vehicle and wait

I feel the need to address a few points!!

I commute into the city centre by bike for about 6 months of the year, and go on long leisure rides at the weekend, so consider myself an experienced cyclist. I also drive - so like around 86% of cyclists, I do actually pay vehicle tax - that is what it is - not ROAD tax! Bikes have no fuel emissions, so like other 'green' vehicles, there is no tax to pay.

People in general are just impatient arseholes nowadays - that is the way society is going. Look at the Black Friday carry on. It is depressing. If only we could be more considerate of each other, maybe we would all be that bit happier? My commute involves using a cycle path for a few miles, and I find everyday that I need to cycle slowly and prepare to brake as there are various dogs bouncing around off their leads. I have in the past been knocked off my bike by a dog diving out of the bushes without warning, to be fair the owner was lovely and very sorry, but why not just obey the rules of the path and use a lead? People need to think of others and not just themselves.

The next stage of my journey involves cycling through a bus lane, and it is amazing how many cars attempt to turn left despite me being right beside them - then beep at me for daring to be cycling where I am legally allowed to be.

After the bus lane, I reach a nasty junction, that I now have learned to get off my bike and negotiate by foot, there are zebra crossings so that is safest. Previously, when I cycled it, I was turning left and a taxi undertook me to go straight on - I was milliseconds from getting flattened by him.

I then cycle through a beautiful park. Last week, I got swore at by an older couple - apparently cyclists are all thick therefore I cannot read the signs saying no cycling - I pointed at said sign which clearly stated that cyclists should proceed slowly but need not dismount. They continued to swear at me, I so wished I had a camera as I reckon it would have went viral - I actually found their odd behaviour very funny.

Next, I cycle up a busy road with cars parked across the narrow cycle lane, it is like an obstacle course. If I stay out from the lane, I get shouted at with cars passing extremely close - as I should 'be in the cycle path' apparently (highway code actually states the use of cycle paths is optional). However using the path involves constantly pulling out round parked cars which is really dangerous - I can't win.

I reach my destination and breathe a sigh of relief - I have made it in one piece! To drive there, it would take me at least an hour and parking is very stressful. Cycling takes 45 minutes and parking is available right by the door.

Commuting by bike is incredibly popular. Would car drivers prefer that all of those people added to the congestion by taking their car and parking?

Finally - someone mentioned a cycling test. Do you really believe that prevents people from driving badly? I really don't see that as the solution. I think the issue is that everyone needs to think of others - that means cyclists too!

Well said MissDuke.

I agree that high vis is a must in poor light.
There are a handful of kids on bikes which I come across on my commute. No helmets, nothing high vis, they're all over the road and barely visible.
It would be more than sensible of them to take all precautions on the road, but the likelihood if I hit them is that it would still be my fault.

"but the likelihood if I hit them is that it would still be my fault*

Yup. There is an awful amount of near victim blaming on this thread. Car drivers are in charge of a potential lethal weapon, it is their responsibility to drive in a manner that will not cause harm to other road users, and that includes allowing for the fact that some road users are less visible/more unpredictable than others.

In more civilised countries in a collision the car driver is always assumed to be at fault unless there is proof otherwise.

I actually think they should ban cycling in central London and reduce zone 1 transport costs, that way cyclists can leave their bike at their outer station and not cause mayhem on the roads. There are not a huge amount of cyclists, they don't reduce congestion at all as they wouldn't otherwise use their cars. Central London can only just fit buses, taxis and delivery vehicles on its roads, there are very few car driving commuters. Cycling needs to be fitted into the streets properly with dedicated routes but having cyclists all over is causing a lot of grief and slows everything down, causes accidents and it's only a small number of people doing this. They would be better off on the bus with everyone else.

There is no NEED (other than financial) to cycle around London, there is public transport everywhere. I say reduce public transport costs within the central zone and ban bikes.

I shall go and put on my teflon and prepare for the flaming that this will cause!

Car drivers are in charge of a potential lethal weapon

A bike can be just as lethal if it is on a fast moving road with poor visibility or pulls out inappropriately - the stopping action required of the car can put other road users at risk. Bikes need to consider that their slowness is a hazard in certain circumstances.

Same as you can't drive under 60 on a motorway as it's dangerous for other users.

I have no objections to motorists overtaking me when it's safe for them and me to do so otherwise they'll just have to wait and not be so fucking impatient and knock off the evil stares in my direction.

I don't hog the middle of the lane but sometimes I have no choice to be there if there's car parked up. So you'll just have to wait till I can move over and let you pass.

Fair enough I think.

Good post MissDuke.

A bike can be just as lethal if it is on a fast moving road with poor visibility or pulls out inappropriately - the stopping action required of the car can put other road users at risk.

Only if the car driver is going too fast. As a car driver you have to anticipate possible hazards and drive accordingly. Did you do a hazard perception test?

willkonnen ever been on public transport in zone 1 during peak times?
there is a reason why zone 1 is more expensive at peak times and it's already at the limit of passengers it can take up.

maus a cyclist takes up a lot less space in a seat on a bus than they do on the road on their bike.

I'm not sure how comforting it is to blame the car driver if you're the cyclist that has been injured It won't make you heal any easier and as the stats upthread show, apart from London, cyclists and car drivers are equally to blame for serious accidents involving bikes and cars.

I do think a test would make a difference. I actually can't quite believe that anyone thinks it's a good idea to suddenly make the roads available to a large group of people who may or may not know the highway code; who may or may not know the safest way to cycle, from road position to ensuring visibility; and who it's incredibly difficult to hold accountable for their behaviour. For lots of drivers, learning 'road sense' is the most difficult part of driving. I have no idea why having two wheels rather than four would make you suddenly an expert on how to behave on the road.

I don't understand why cyclists aren't campaigning for more awareness and more training for cyclists, as well as campaigning to make drivers more aware.

If I see someone driving like an idiot not only is it easy for me to report them because they have a registration number but I also don't tend to worry about them being hurt. They are in a massive vehicle with lots of safety features. If I see a cyclist cycling irresponsibly then I can't easily report it to anyone and tbh I feel frightened for them because if they are in an accident, they are more likely to be seriously hurt.

Nothing is going to improve in this country until the debate can progress beyond 'them' and 'us'; and everyone takes responsibility.

As a car driver you have to anticipate possible hazards and drive accordingly.

So you agree that cyclists are a hazard then.

Willkommen I think it would be much better to ban all traffic except buses, taxis and delivery vehicles from zone 1. Let everyone else use public transport or get on their bikes.

So you agree that cyclists are a hazard then.

All vulnerable road users are potentially a hazard to careless drivers. The answer being for the poor drivers to have their driving skills reevaluated.

As a cyclist who also drives I realise how important being visible on a bike is, because I know that a cyclist dressed in dark clothing on a black bike is not particularly visible. I take responsibility for my safety by wearing a high vis jacket, and am lit up like a blinking Christmas tree with good front and rear lights on both my bike and helmet.

It really pisses me off to see cyclists out in misly weather or in the dark with no measures in place to ensure they're visible.

I have to say that I find only a very small proportion of vehicles pass me too close for comfort but I do get tooted at for not riding in the inner two feet of the road. This feels aggressive and I have no opportunity to respond. When this happens I wish I could stop the driver ask them to get out of their car and look at the state of the road which is collapsing at the side and treacherous with potholes. I really think if some of the tooty drivers realised this they would be more understanding.

I find when I'm driving a car I spend a lot of time behind other car drivers going slowly, some doing 30 mph in 50mph limits and then stopping suddenly or not indicating to turn. I have had drivers tailgating me as I have driven to the speed limit and tet the road ahead is straight and safe to over take - yet they don't overtake.

I have found on town roads the stop for oncoming traffic to pass where a line of parked cars are on one side - yet there would be a three foot gap between them if they drove on, just seems they can't judge the distance or width of there car. But then further on these same drivers have squeezed past a cyclist leaving far less than three foot gap.

Drivers if cars cause far mor hold ups on the roads than any cyclists, but there never seem to be complaints about all the drivers causing traffic chaos

I'm sorry, the idea of banning bikes in Zone 1 is absurd. Why not ban private cars instead? Stick a few strategically placed park and ride car parks next to decent tube links and that would make the roads far safer and more pleasant than banning bikes.

Cyclists don't slow cars down in busy city centres, cars slow bikes down. I used to be able cycle across my busy city in half the time it took me to drive it.

I think cyclists should consider getting a child seat fitted to the back of their bikes because it does make most drivers more considerate towards you. Not always though. Plus, I think it has prevented my bike from being stolen.

If I sense there is a stupid motorist behind me I cycle onto the pavement.

Cyclists need more bike lanes.

I don't know Wilkommen - since Oxford St went cab/bus/delivery only it's become quite the cyclist-friendly route. One has to watch out for pedestrians, since it's oxford st, but it's really rather nice - a marked difference from the rest of Zone 1. It surprised me as I wouldn't have thought there were that many private vehicles around either. It makes me think that banning private vehicles in Zone 1 could make a positive difference - and hopefully encourage others to cycle, which would help cut down on public transport congestion too.

Banning cycling... not really sure how that would help. You'd just get more traffic, wouldn't you? Even if public transport costs were lower, you'd still need more buses/cabs etc. And traffic in Zone 1 is a nightmare as it is.

So you agree that cyclists are a hazard then.

This week's "Did that seem clever in your head?" Award goes to this piece of genius.

All other road users are potential hazards.

If you don't understand that, you really need to stop driving cars, which are extremely hazardous to other road users.

There isn't enough space for bike lanes unless you expect all London residents to stop owning cars, new builds often have that written in now anyway. Some decent superhighways with bike parking nearby would be good. And better park and ride for tube lines for cars AND bikes.

Better and cheaper public transport is the way forward.

Banning private cars won't make much difference, there are hardly any on the road in London as it is, they are mostly cabs. Zone 2 you probably get the school run brigade but to be fair they often have several children in the car.

Cyclists don't need segregated bike lanes, they just need drivers to be considerate, and to not behave like idiots themselves. Half the time bike lanes, particularly on-road lanes, are worse than nothing at all. Any half-fit cyclist will beat a car across London. It's not cyclists who hold drivers up in urban areas.