Photography of naughty behavior at primary school

[Lilacpurpleviolet]

Really want to know if iabu, hence posting here.

Teachers at our school (dc is in yR) take photos of children when they have done something naughty and show these as 'evidence' to parent and child at pick up, this is done in a very stern (angry) voice by the teacher.

For example, a boy scratched another boy. The boy who did the scratching was told off and the boy who was scratched was asked to stand still so that the teacher could take a picture. I'm not sure what they did with this image.

My dc got carried away and acted silly with a messy activity and ended up with messy marks all over her face and uniform. Other children also got messy. This was a 'play fight' so no aggression or nastiness by dc though I can see that the teachers would want to crack down on such behavior.

Anyway when I collected dc we were told very very sternly about what dc had been up to. The teacher then held a digital camera in my daughters face showing her close up pictures of her face with all the splashes whilst reprimanding my dc in a very intense voice.

The thing is that dc's face was still covered in splashes so there was really no need to show me this photographic 'evidence' as I could see it for myself. Also I have always supported the teacher and trust she wouldn't make things up. Why show me a photo of dc's 'misdemeanor'?

Am I being unreasonable to think this use of photography is 'shaming' for the child and really quite inappropriate?

Btw, I have spoken to the head who said that these particular photos of dc would be deleted. Still, I wonder if this type of use of photography is the norm in schools and what other people think about it. Is there a policy on such thing? Thanks.

Very unpleasant. I would be horrified if that happened in my sons school. It's really over stepping the mark and makes me feel very uncomfortable.

If a teacher has lost control and perspective enough to think they 'need' this weird behaviour then that teacher has lost all sense.

I find this absolutely appalling, how a school that does this be outstanding?

That is weird and inappropriate. I would be very unhappy about that.

I don't see the point in it. Lets say they are doing this because some parents will believe their child's about over the teachers. How does taking a photo of a smudged picture prove in anyway who did it? Yes it proves the photo was smudged but not by whom or how. Same goes for the scratch.

I've never come across anything like this before. It's bizarre to say the least.

Why would a teacher need evidence? Surely we'd believe someone telling us our reception age child had been up to no good?

I think its awful. Hasn't she got anything else to be getting on with? I'd also be really worried where these pics end up - she's probably blogging away somewhere! Its very simple - you just ask her to stop and that if she doesn't you will talk to the local education authority. Tell her you are happy to believe her when she wants to tell you about your child and that she does not need to waste her time taking pictures.

If OFSTED come round and find this, they'll probably order a review of Governance. Its outrageous.

What! What !
What does she expect you to do? They are in her classroom so isn't it her responsibility to keep good order.? They are in Reception FFS.
She is in fact showing you evidence that she lost control of the class.
Have your children signed anything to say that she has permission to take their photo ?
Next time she shows you a photo of your child doing something naughty in her class, perhaps you can ask her about her role in stopping them doing it. Ask to see her discipline policy.
Surely it is her responsibility. Her class, her responsibility.
I think it is unlikely that her employers would approve.
It is negative reinforcement.
She is mad.

Ridiculous

You will have signed a form giving the school general permission to photograph your DC, this is usually for things like school literature, wall displays, very occasionally for press articles

In these circumstances, I would put in writing that they stop this practice immediately or I would be withdrawing my permission for the school to photograph my DC at all

Rockin. All children in reception and nursery are being photographed by their teachers all the time.
Teachers have to to evidence the child's learning and achievements.

What this teacher is doing is wrong but the photographing of the children in her class generally is not, it is part of every day.

Is it a bit odd that there's such a problem with taking photos at nurseries (since the freak Vanessa George), but as soon as they've clicked over into reception that their photo's constantly taken?

Or have the two never been considered together because they're for such different reasons? Or because teachers are trusted more? Or children thought to be able to speak up more at school?

(as I was googling to see whether there was an outright ban on phones/cameras in nurseries, I found this story (telegraph link) about a 3 YO lad who was banned from his school photo sesh because of his 'extreme' haircut (I was imagining all sorts) but it was because his hair was too short! WTF?? Fucking unbelievable)

I've never heard of this, and DS has been in all kinds of troublesome situations at school over the years.

I can see it might be due to parents listening to their children's versions of events rather than teachers. But surely those parents wouldn't believe the photo's either. Unless the photo was of their child actually carrying out the deed (which wouldn't happen as the teacher would need to be dealing with it not taking a photo!) They will just say "yes I can see little Harry had scratches/spoilt work but of course it wasn't my dc that did it." It wouldn't take the situation any further forward surely?

Is it a bit odd that there's such a problem with taking photos at nurseries
I am a nursery teacher. I photograph the children in my class about once a day. All nurseries that I know of do so for the child's learning journey. Ask at your child's nursery to see their learning journey.

The school might be outstanding, but this teacher sounds a bit less than satisfactory. She is (quite literally) focusing on negative behaviour.

The problem is not the photos, but the way they are being take and used. It makes more sense to take pictures of children being outstandingly good, and show those pictures to their parents. If a child misbehaves, the incident should be thoroughly dealt with then forgiven and forgotten as quickly as possible.

Could you access their e-safety or ICT policy? We have bits about taking photographs and when to use them in ours.

I fully support Teachers being backed by Parents. I come from a Teaching background and know all about the pressures of being a Teacher. It is a horrendous job. But I am also a Parent.
However, I have also known bad teachers who are bullies and wind children up. They themselves are confrontational, so it is not enough to say that it is wholly one side or the other.

It is such a trivial incident involving a FIVE year old. I am amazed that this Teacher brought it up, BUT,
I think it is because of the previous issue with the parent, who had spoken to the Head about her DD's class teacher. The Head will have ' had a word' with the class teacher. This 'word' will have had an effect on the Teacher and also her confidence. She is defending herself by showing the Parent who has COMPLAINED about her, that her child is naughty.

I think it is a difficult situation. Ideally the post should have gone to the Teacher with her original complaint about the Teachers ' heavy handiness ' but she went to the Head. I quite understand why but
Head's in Schools have a lot of power. So the Head then went to the class Teacher and said Mrs Lilac said you are being heavy handed. It then depends on how confident the Teacher is herself as to how she reacted.

The Parent has now gone to the Head again about the photo.
We now have a communication breakdown with both sides feeling upset. Believe me the Teacher will feel upset, as who likes being complained about (behind their backs )to their employers ?
Leaving aside whose to blame here. There is now a situation so serious that the post is thinking of moving her DD. I think she should talk to the Teacher face to face.
If her child is happy at the school, I don't think the post should move her, because of her own problems with the Teacher.

If she is going to move her every time there is a incident at school ( and it is a trivial incident) then she is soon going to run out of schools.
I think the post should cool it.
I don't think the Teacher is right by any means but I think this is what has happened.
I think the post should speak to the Teacher face to face in future. If she can't do that because she is unable to be assertive, then I don't know what she can do, because the situation between her and the Teacher has escalated up a notch.
There is a fine line between protecting your child ( which you must do)!and being over protective.

We don't know what happened in the lead up to the OP having to talk to the ht about the class teacher being heavy handed... So although its a nice thought to try and think of the teachers feelings, im not sure what has been said that would indicate any of the alternative storyline?

I would expect any competent and professional teacher to behave, well, in a competent and professional manner. Yes, even after having a parent speak to her head.

It's not in any way an excuse for taking it out on a child and points scoring with a parent - surely we don't have to be all sympathetic because the poor diddums has previously needed intervention due to poor teaching practise?

I fully support teachers and do understand its a difficult profession. But it would be doing a great disservice to the skilled and professional teachers to have such low standards and expectations.

We don't know why this situation has arisen but I cannot think how it fits with good teaching practise.

How disgusting. Very unusual behaviour. Social services don't even do this so why would a school need to for such silly situations. I would be concerned about this. If something bad happens a teacher should be neutralising the situation not pulling the camera out and taking photos for "evidence"

I would be concerned about this. If something bad happens a teacher should be neutralising the situation not pulling the camera out and taking photos for "evidence"

How on God's green earth, have you come to the conclusion that she is photographing the scratched cheek, dirty faced kids before pulling the camera out? I thin that is what you call a straw man

I can actually understand why the teacher is doing this.My DB is a teacher and sometimes has parents saying 'Little Johnnie says he didn't do it and I believe him' and you don't have to look far through these threads to see similar attitudes amongst parents.

Seems a bit daft to me as the teacher should just deal with the behaviour on the spot.

This worry about showing the photo to other parents is baseless isn't it. The other parent is standing right there and can see the child with their own eyes. It's not as though they are being issued copies.

Actually I really dislike the fact that the children will be getting told off twice. They probably do the naughty deed and then have to spend all day worrying about mum and dads reaction when she gets the camera out. Its not really conducive to learning and shows the children that the teacher cares more about negative behavior than positive. Does she get the camera out when two kids are helping each other tidying up? Or giving each other a cuddle?

Pretty much all advice Ive read on parenting says children should be told off in the moment and not be brought up over and over again for the rest of the day. Or not scare the child with 'wait until your father gets home'. This teacher is working against all of this current thinking. She's creating a culture of negativity and fear and I can't imagine that makes for a very happy classroom which is simply outrageous at their age.

Bonkers. All of it. The photo taking and the making a huge deal of small incidents. I'm sure there are always going to be one or two parents who don't believe their child have done anything wrong - but I bet the photos won't convince those types anyway. If it's the majority of parents who won't listen to the teacher's explanations of a particular incident then the school has a massive problem that will take more than some photos to deal with.

How long does it take for the teacher to hand over the kids at the end of the day if she's bringing up every single issue?

My DD is in reception and the teacher must speak to one parent every other day or so on average. And that's a class of around 30 kids.

Sounds weird but suspect, like the previous poster, this has come about because Mrs Jones can't believe Jonny would EVER behave like this. I've had this happen to laughable extremes.... But odd solution. Teachers must be at their wits end to have dreamt it up...

You are definitely not being unreasonable.

DS has ended up in A&E after being hit by a child with a wii remote, been scratched on the face leaving him with a now very faint but permanent scar and bitten leaving a bruise which lasted about three weeks.

None of this was photographed, I accepted the teachers version of events and I don't feel I need to see a photo of it as well, I'm sure the parents of the children who hurt my son didn't need to see photos either.

DS comes home from school black rotten from messy play sometimes, he is kept back at playtime for silly behaviour; again, if the teacher wants to speak to me about this I will accept what she says unless I have good reason to doubt it, there's no way I'd be asking for evidence whether DS be the victim or the one being hurtful/silly.

YANBU. Clearly, taking photographs of significant injuries is sensible for a range of reasons. Likewise, if there are serious problems with particular parents failing to accept accounts of serious bad behaviour and getting overly defensive about it then yes, again I can understand why you might wish to record such evidence to present. A blanket policy though, and particularly using this over a fucking smudge on a painting, is absolutely ridiculous.

It's odd but maybe the teacher has had disbelieving parents thinking that their little darling can do no wrong.

But unless they have caught the entire incident on film then parents could still dispute it. A photo of a scratch does not prove who scratched the child and why. I would not be impressed by being shown a photo, tbh.

I also agree with the poster who said that parents have been given a greater responsibility in their children's education, so it is not surprising when they want a greater amount of clarification when incidents occur. But photos of misdemeanours ? Not in reception, surely.