AIBU to still be upset / angry disappointed that my mum was put on the Liverpool pathway the week I had DD.

[Fizzielove]

Just what the title says really - no conversations with the hospital - just turn up to visit to find out that she'd been hooked up to diamorphine / catheterized, etc. the hospital were aware I was due any day and that I was also having a planned cs - but they didn't care.

This has seriously screwed my head up - AIBU to be unable to let the feelings go - I just can't......

My MIL was on the Liverpool pathway last year. She made that decision herself, we didnt know when she was going to go, in fact like others said she did rally the day before her death.

She wasnt in pain and having spent two weeks recently with my DM in hospital - its just horrible to see so many people just literally waiting to die, people of a great age, 70% of people on her ward with dementia with no real idea what was going on.

I'm so sorry for your loss and you will be grieving. It can be difficult to accept you have something you can be joyful about - that is a new baby - when it happens around the same time as loss, especially the loss of a parent - who face birth to you. All these emotions may be getting all mixed up and I wonder if you have someone you can talk to about all of this?

It's very sad that you've lost your mum at such an emotionally intense time for you - however, I think YABU to be angry with the hospital. Unless your mum was unable to make her own decisions and you were the next of kin, the hospital do not need, and in fact should not, take your wishes into account. I'm so sorry you're going through this, but please remember that the hospital's priority was your mum, not you, as it should be.

It sounds like she was in a position to discuss her wishes with staff, but was in her last hours/days and needed that end of life care. I suspect she may also have asked staff not to contact you about this, sparing you from the reality of what was going on when the birth was imminent. if this is the case, if they had contacted you they would have been breaching her confidentiality.

It is important to highlight that this is not the hospital or your mother deciding to "end her life" as a PP has put it, this was quality, compassionate care given when death was about to happen anyway, and when there was no other option for her.

Please do ask to meet with hospital staff if you feel able, as they will be able to talk you through the care she received. You can also request copies of her medical records if you feel you want to.

so sorry for your loss and I do understand why you can't let go now we have all the facts

its a horrible way for it all to have ended up ... but sounds like your Mum wanted it that way but perhaps didn't realise it would happen so fast?

perhaps counselling? or call that charity Cruse and have a chat with them?

I was traumatised by my Dad's passing and the whole awful mess that it turned out to be (long story I won't bore you with) and even now (5 years later) it still burns sometimes but it has gotten a lot better

good luck!

I am very sorry to hear about your mother's death, Fizzielove - it is bad enough to lose a beloved parent in any circumstances but to lose someone like this can seem unbearable. You left someone who was ill, but still in the midst of life, one day - looking forward to seeing her imminent grandchild and not having said her final goodbyes to her family - and then returned soon afterwards to find her insensible, after a decision had been made to hasten and ease her death. The shock and grief of this must have been terrible. Personally, I feel that close family who have been visiting regularly, and obviously care deeply about the ill person, should at least be informed, if not consulted, when this final procedure is being put in place. The way this happened has left you at a loss, with no information to help you make sense of it, or come terms with it.

Your grief has been accentuated by the fact that you were about to bring a new life into the world and you wanted your new daughter's life to cross with your mother's, albeit fleetingly. I am very sorry that you did not get the chance for this to happen - it is a deep human instinct to see the baton of life passed from one generation to another and you were cruelly deprived of it. It is hardly surprising that you feel devastated - you are feeling just as a loving daughter would.

My first advice to you, Fiizzielove, is not to minimise your feelings - you need to grieve before you can possibly come to terms with this. Cry, and express your thoughts, fears and sadness to those around you. I would also make an appointment with the consultant under whose care your mother was in hospital. He will have access to all your mother's notes, including those made on the night the decision was made to begin the LCP. You should be able to find out exactly what the circumstances were that led to this procedure being decided upon and what part your mother played in it. I hope that learning what exactly happened will give you peace of mind on one level - when you know nothing about a situation, it is natural to fear the worst. Proper knowledge, I hope, will allow a natural process of grieving to begin - at the moment, it is being blocked by your feelings of helplessness, fear, and anger at not knowing exactly what happened.

Lastly, you are a new mother, with all the fatigue, uncertainty and disrupted hormones that go with it. Look after yourself and try to take comfort from your baby girl. One life has gone and another has come into the world. When your daughter is older, you will be able to talk to her about her Granny that she never met and show her photos. I'm sure you don't need me to suggest it, but have you thought of giving your little girl her Granny's name as a middle name? It is trite but true that love never dies and your mother will live on through you, your new daughter and her children after that.

I'm so sorry to hear this, it sounds like a dreadfully difficult situation and you must miss your mum terribly.

The Liverpool Care pathway is not specific thing that is done to people and it's not to speed death up. It's more a recognition that there probably isn't long to go and that it's in the best interest of the patient to focus on making sure they are comfortable, rather than giving them treatments that might be painful or make them feel worse (through side effects etc) and are unlikely to hep them live much longer.

For example some people might not be able to eat or drink and so get dehydrated, so you might think giving them fluids is a good idea. Unfortunately sometimes extra fluids can make breathing more difficult, so make them feel worse than before.

The things that happen when patients are on the LCP are only very simple things to help them feel better. The morphine drip you suggested is very often one of those things that is done as it is very good at taking away pain. It's usually continuous not with a button as patients who are dying may sleep a lot and it would be cruel for them to keep waking up in pain because they've been asleep and haven't pressed the button.

It's absolutely right that the patient - if they are able to understand, which it sounds like your mum was -should be kept informed about what is happening and offered a full explanation of all the options and treatment available. Family should also be informed, but if the patient is awake and able to make their wishes clear then they get to decide how much their family are told.

It sounds like your mum cared very much about you and the rest of your family. Is it possible that she was in more pain than you knew and putting on brave face for you, perhaps especially for you because you were about to give birth and she wanted to spare you as much worry as she could? Or if she suddenly got worse in the night they might have asked if she wanted them to call you and told them not to disturb you as you needed your sleep?

It's very understandable that you would find this so hard. It must be so sad for you that your mum didn't get to meet your daughter and I'm sure there are so many questions you would love to ask her now you are a mum yourself. I do think some counselling would help you to let go of it and focus more on the happy memories of her. I do also think Bettercallsaul1 has a good idea - it might help to go through your mum's notes with someone who can explain what happened and why the decisions were made how they were.

So sorry for your loss fizzie, and what difficult circumstances. I recently lost both my parents a few months apart, and at the end each of them were on the Liverpool Care Pathway.

In my Mum's case, it was evident that she was close to the end and that there was no point in continuing to give her all the rest of her medication or to cause her discomfort by trying to put another line in. The whole process was calm, there was time for the doctor to explain everything to me and my Dad and for the whole family to understand what was happening.

With my Dad things took a different course. He went from being seriously and terminally ill (but ok) to being in excruciating pain and distress within the space of a few hours. Fortunately I was already with him but honestly I would not have prolonged his conscious awareness of all of this for even an hour. I had promised my sister that I would let her know about any changes, but at the time I couldn't get hold of her and the situation was such that I (and the doctors) felt it was right to go ahead with the LCP anyway. Fortunately my dsis managed to get to the hospital before he died, and thankfully his passing was peaceful and pain free. However, even if my dsis had not made it to the hospital I would still think that it was the right thing to do.

I understand your deep sadness that your dm did not get to meet her grandchild. You say you were having a planned cs, but you could not have been certain that it could have been brought forward. Your Mum must have been very poorly for either her or the hospital to make that decision when they knew how much she was looking forward to the birth of your baby. Can you take any comfort from knowing that your Mum would have been delighted to be with you during so much of your pregnancy, and that she knew there was another life about to come into the world.