to be inwardly seething about DW's negativity impacting on DD?

[Minus2seventy3]

Bit of an outline first - DW can be negative at times, a little "glass half empty". Can be difficult keeping her upbeat. I sometimes find myself having to pick DD up as well when she picks up on her mam's mood swings (she can be very Jekyll and Hyde).
Onto the specifics that drives me to this little rant (for that's what I see this as being). I practice a martial art, have done for a few years. When I'd go for a grading on a Sunday, which would often run past DD's bedtime (I do most bedtimes), she'd always make me promise to come up to her room to show her my new belt. So when she asked to come along to the dojo when she was old enough, I was really rather chuffed indeed, and more so when she enjoyed it so much to stick at it. So that's now one of my favorite daddy/daughter things.
Now, DD probably ain't up to speed for our next grading, and whilst I and sensei are all encouragement and "it doesn't matter missing a grading once in a while", DW is less so. On to the real crux that had me hugely pissed off (inside) last night. DD asked me if I'd mind her quitting karate if she didn't get to grade this time round- apparently DW has told her if she can't learn her moves for this grading, how's she going to cope with the new stuff in the new year? "Can i give up if it's too hard?" Honestly, my heart sank with those words. DW has really fucked me off this time: how dare she put her negativity onto the little one like that, is she trying to ruin one of the most fun things I share with my daughter?

One of the best things about martial arts and a lot of other sports, but particularly these individual sports that aren't a matter of direct competition with another team is that you learn that improvement isn't linear, that practice is important but sometimes you learn loads of new stuff and sometimes you just sort of consolidate stuff. It's SUCH an important life lesson and the one main thing I hope my child gains from whatever sport he chooses (he's only 14months just now).

Oh that's awful! I used to do Karate with my Dad. For years and I loved it! It takes as long as it takes to learn new things. Speed isn't a problem, there are some who go along at an average pace together but in our club we always had new beginners and a range of abilities. The accomplishment when you've had to keep trying is a great feeling. It's not a race, it's a personal journey to improve and learn.
If it helps at all I made the decision to take gradings less frequently, but I carried on well into 4th dan. My Dad still does it and is still learning all sorts of nuance and teaching.

martial arts also teach emotional resilience which is a thing your wife really seems to lack.

I would be speaking seriously to your wife about whether she wants your daughter to be like her or to be more positive. and about the role sports can play in learning that.

You are obviously very passionate about your martial art, but are you 100% sure your DD is?

Are you 100% sure that your wife's comments are to blame?

Are you100% sure of what was said and why?

Perhaps your DD is only participating in this because she knows it pleases you.
Perhaps your wife didn't say that at all and your DD is misinterpreting.

Your relationship with your DW doesn't sound great tbh.
Sure you aren't viewing this through a distorted lens?

You need to talk to your wife. Seething is useless. Either she really did say this*, in which case, she needs to know she's being a twit about how belt gradings work.

Or your daughter misunderstood, in which case seething is also useless.

*My mother used to suffer from similar misapprehensions. Fortunately, I was a teenager, and well able to figure out for myself that my instructors and their nth dan black belts were the ones whose opinions mattered.

I really like your attitude in this -you sound really good with your dd.
I think you should continue to bolster up your dd,have a chat with your dw and tell her you'll take the initiative with this one,and deal with it for better or worse.

I agree with bodhranbaes comments and questions. Are you sure your DD is as into the martial art as you think she is? She may want to do other things now, but doesn't want to mention it as she doesn't want to disappoint you.

I'm not sure I saw what age your DD was, can you confirm. I'd sit her down and have an honest chat with her, ask her if she still enjoys it, explain what you've said above about the gradings ( which sounds imminently reasonable). Also tell her that you love her and you still will if she wants to give up.

I was forced to do music by my parents (mainly my DF) to the exclusion of being able to go to other clubs as a teenager as they clashed and I got to spend Saturday morning with a bunch of middle aged people then had to lug my embarassingly large (DFs choice) clarinet box into town to meet my pals. I resented it then and I still resent it now. I was good at it but didn't enjoy it.

I'd also sit down and have a very calm conversation with your DW but along the lines of does she thing DD is enjoying it and then added on to that why did she make the remarks about giving up - but in a neutral truth seeking voice if you can manage it.

I agree the dad should keep an open mind on whether his dd enjoys the club and wants to continue, but surely this is his conversation to have? I really think parents interfering with the other one's activities can just end up with competing parents, which is not good at all. If I am taking my dd to swimming, I may consult my husband and her on whether to continue, but it's my call. If the wife has anything to say, like I don't think your dd is enjoying it- then she should say it directly to the husband. Also, children do go through stages of enjoyment/wanting to practice/wanting to do things with/not with parents, but that's for the dad to handle - by being open-minded but also not being undermined from elsewhere.

Well we're really only getting one side of the story here aren't we hairtoday. The DW could be the moody moaner portrayed by the OP or there may be a completely different story. It can't hurt for the OP to validate that his DD is enjoying the sport.

On the face of it I'd be pissed off too. The principle of giving up if you don't get something straight away is awful.

But, I'd talk to your DW before you seethe anymore because there could a lot more to it than your DD has told you. It could have been in the context of a much bigger conversation.

I'm not British, so please take this with a big heaping of salt, I'm just offering it as an alternative culture. Perhaps it's not relevant or perhaps you'll all think my family is a bunch of weirdos.

Anyway.

Both my parents, especially my father, would have said things like this to me and my siblings from time to time. Sports, music, volunteering - name the activity, one of us did it. We usually had at least three hobbies on the go.

My parents gave us wonderful opportunities, and spent a lot of money and more importantly, their time, getting us to wherever we asked to go. All they asked in return was that we worked as hard as could at the activity.

If I had slacked off, and failed to get a good result in a music exam, mucked up a part in a play or recital, or been dropped from a sports team for slacking off, they would have been incredibly disappointed in me. We were expected to push ourselves all the time. It was not okay to give anything but our best.

I know that sounds horrific to most of you but my siblings and I are all normal, happy, well-adjusted people and I genuinely credit pretty much all that I've achieved to their Tiger Parenting. It's basically considered emotional abuse in Britain, but there you go. I was raised that I always had to push myself to my very best. I'm glad of it.

If your daughter tried her best, attended every session, and pushed herself really hard, and is still missing a grading, that is nothing to be ashamed of. But if she slacked off a bit, I think it would be fair enough to say that she will struggle to keep up in the future, and she needs to work hard if everybody is going to devote time and money to her hobby.

How old is she, what belt and how long since her last grading?

I wouldn't be seething inwardly! How can she learn the life lessons that karate has to offer if she gives in to the negativity? My DH teaches karate and our 5 year old DD does it (he wants to make sure that his girls can take care of themselves....) anyway, I've been to gradings with them - the sensei's, when they are small, are all about the effort. They don't put them in unless they can do it. AND they carry on doing the basics as they go up grades as the basics are there for a reason. DH often does kata that is too 'advanced' for his students to stretch them.

I'd be pointing out to her that this is an important life lesson, that she loves it and karate is about so much more than the belts. It teaches self control, discipline, mediation (as well as the obvious). I'd also be trying to sort out her negativity as it will be badly affecting her own life as well as rubbing off on your daughter.

YANBU, anxiety can really hamper effective learning, especially in little ones. Is perhaps your wife a bit resentful of this time you spend together? Not that she should, it sounds like a very positive experience for you and dd. Just wondering if theres perhaps a back story. Does your wife get time for hobbies or some fun recreational time with your dd? Is she ground down by day to day drudgery and sees you doing the fun parenting? It sound like she might be projecting some underlying resentment onto your dd, perhaps not anything to do with the karate.

Hi, thank you all for your responses. To answer a couple of questions, and a bit of an update.
To confirm DD's just turned 8.
Mam and daughter do plenty together - I'd not dream of getting in the way of them- DD can be very much mummy's girl (even though they rub each other up at times).
HoldMeCloser... - yes, I agree, to advance, a student obviously has to put in the effort and it is obvious when kids (and adults!) are just "going through the motions". Wrt "falling behind"- that doesn't really fit with what our (and I would wager most) dojo is about. Whilst students obviously look to their sempai (seniors) for inspiration and guidance (just as they look to set a positive example to their juniors), it is very much stressed that it's not a competition: belt advances are at a student's pace (obviously, occasionally kids, and adults especially, are sometimes pushed to challenge, but sensei doesn't set folk up to fail). There have been times I've been advised not to grade, times I've known I'm not ready, and also when I've been challenged (and subsequently passed), and I've let the little one know all this... Essentially, dad doesn't grade every time either.
This "not a competition" (I'm almost embarrassed to say) is what DW simply doesn't seem to get - she sees that other students may have advanced, and is "why them, and not our little one?".
So on to the update. DW's reaction to sensei (and me agreeing) to the little one missing this grading. On the drive home, we (DD and I) had a talk. I asked her how she felt about the grading, tried to be as open as possible, wanted her views, not coached views. She said she was a little upset, but understood. She asked me about missing gradings in the past and how I felt, so I answered honestly that yes, it's not great, but I just crack on and try again, because I love karate. By the time we got home, we were okay I thought.
Got home, and spoke to DW- I tried to explain the points I've put above, tried to keep it level and calm, but her reaction was not good. Again, the old lines come out- teacher has favourites, other people have graded etc. Every time I tried to express that karate is a personal journey, and I really feel it's about her own progression and fun, no one else's, I was talked (well, got to be almost shouted) down. I walked away, went to do tea for DD (DW is now "not hungry" - read toys out of the pram and pissed off with me).
I could hear my wife talking to DD from the kitchen- every question was leading, designed to get a response she wanted. Bloody furious- wanted to intervene, but then, you can't undermine the other parent's conversations, lest we end up having an argument in front of tyke.
So now I'm still pissed off - got nothing but monotone, monosyllabic responses after I put the little one to bed. Now I'm at work, left before anyone else was up. Fearing what she'll say to DD before school - like I'll come home tonight, and, fait acompli, tyke and I will no longer enjoy karate together. This was "our thing". Want to send a text asking her to not raise the subject of karate, to please take a back seat on this and promise her that if ever the little one doesn't want to go, I'll accept it without fuss. But then, I also feel that's appeasing the way she reacted last night, which I feel was unacceptable. This is obviously much more than just karate - it's how she speaks to me, which I've taken for ages, but really have to find a way to get her to moderate, to mellow: because whilst I can take it, I don't want DD to have to take it.

I think you need to have a discussion with your DW (and indeed think about your own presentation of it) about how karate grades get further apart as you move up, and it stops being about "missing a grading once in a while" and starts being about (very) occasionally doing one. Yes, other students have advanced - they probably didn't grade last time when your DD did. Or maybe they did. Maybe they're supremely talented and rushing up through the belts. Most kids aren't. It's not a requirement to enjoy karate.

I mean, my kids' school offers a grading most months. If people did every one they'd be black belt in a year, and absolutely nobody is, not even the kids who go on to represent GB. In practice, DS has just graded to black/brown (first kyu). It was almost exactly three years after his previous grading. Yes, he's "fallen behind" the supremely talented child who won medals at the Europeans earlier this year. He's moved ahead of several others, and many more have given up.

Does your DW only want your DD to do things she's likely to be international standard in? I think you need to ask her that question, explicitly, and to think about it yourself. If she does carry on, she'll be missing far more gradings than once in a while.

Question OP - do you think your DW is trying to put your DD off karate so that she stops wanting to go? or do you think she is doing the "tiger mum" thing of telling her that she's not trying hard enough so she should either be better or give up?

Although it's written for the context of parents working with kids to practice musicality instruments I think you'd find the book below v helpful - it has lots of example scenarios and good kid views of learning situations. The author is a child psychologist as well as a violin teacher.

Helping Parents Practice by Edmund Sprunger

skylark that's my thinking as my child seems to stand still as others are powering through the belts: others have given up and progress does slow for most of the normal kids as they rise up the ranks. The teacher is fine with this and there is no push to grade or embarrassment if you are not ready. I have learned all this by watching the sessions for a few years, whereas the mum here hasn't had that opportunity.

What I want is for my kids to continue with physical activity through teenage years and into adulthood. Martial arts is one of the few areas where, precisely because you can go at a slow but sure pace, that seems more likely to happen. It's too easy to burn out of physical activity in middle childhood ime.

OP, is DW very competitive in other areas? Maybe she needs to learn to see this as one of those long term investments for the future rather than a short term project to "win" at.

Thumbwitch - I don't think it's so much a "Tiger mum" as she thinks she "knows best"... Kinda annoying (and more than a little arrogant) she's second guessing someone with more than a quarter century's experience.
She is certainly very much "in the now" and expects instant results (in almost all areas of life) - think she lacks patience, and doesn't see the long game.

Well I hope that you can reassure your DD that she's allowed to progress at her own pace and that missing a grading here or there is to allow her to build up her confidence, not because she's "not doing well enough" or anything.

You might have to actively contradict what your DW is saying to achieve that, I don't know. I hope you can persuade your DW that it's ok for your DD to not move as quickly as she thinks she ought to.