To not want to send my DCs to a school where a teacher is a 'guide on the side' and minecraft on the curriculum from Y4?

[Citizen1000]

Children are at a forward thinking, all through school in the 'burbs and I went to talk yesterday that told us iPads will be used daily for the Y4s up and that an educational form of Minecraft will be part of the curriculum too. Pilot schemes have been very popular and we've been told bringing in much more technology earlier will promote IT skills and team work in young children. iPads can be used effectively in the classroom and support for more technology earlier in the classroom is really growing as I see it. I can see that introduced well and used widely it could be a powerful tool. Personally I feel that ideally it would come in when they were older.

We were also told that we should see our child's teacher as a 'guide on the side' and that any form of teaching that was old fashioned, didactic and 'Sage on the stage' was a bad thing. It was explained that the 21st Century is all about putting greater emphasis on cross curricular, interdisciplinary skills and there should be more project type work to promote skills and the various different aptitudes the children might possess. The teacher, we must realise, is there as a deliverer of the curriculum and the 'child is in the middle' who must be appealed to. So higher up the school this means posters in literacy etc. Knowledge apparently can be accessed via technology and rote learning is really an educational anachronism with no merit or value at all.

As I see it by acquiring knowledge in a traditional sense you are also training your mind to focus and concentrate, using your memory and, taught well, by a 'Sage on the stage' (now a very bad thing apparently) developing a capacity to analyse? An expert, a brilliant subject specialist in their field who can inspire in a tried-and-tested centuries old way is to be shunted out in favour of someone who can deliver the curriculum and be more fun for the children. A 'guide' who doesn't really need to be as specialised. There seems to be this total shift away from seeing education as knowledge acquired over time and valuing it for its own sake. It feels to me like there is this growing anti-intellectualism in the UK and in thinking about what might be practical in the 21st century we might be doing our children a disservice? Just curious to see how others feel and if I am being unreasonable and just need to get with the 21st Century accepting that children can just look up what they don't know on the internet? Speaking to others it seems that many who received a traditional classical education themselves often hated it and are seeking something much more fun for their children. Sometimes I wonder if they realise that it was precisely that traditional acquisition of knowledge and classical type of education, so hated, that has enabled them to be as successful as they often are?

YANBU. Nobody talks about it, but the reason independent schools turn out so much better results than state is because they haven't bought into all this bollocks and instead continued to teach actual content rather than 'skills'.

Do you think that all state schools are like the one mentioned in the OP then? They aren't.

Why don't private schools publish their value added results by the way? Why are their afraid of them being shown alongside state value added results?

Sure but I'd be surprised if they're buying enough of them to make the kind of huge difference that Citizen1000 is worrying about. Way too expensive!

wow Skylark that's interesting - since you normally need to have an A level and/ or degree in your specialism - as well as a minimum of maths and English (+3) at GCSE for secondary - and those plus Science at GCSE for Primary - I'd be interested in more information in the route into teaching you where offered.

Mind you Academies can stick a dog in front of the class and call it a teacher

OP send your child where you think is best suited to their needs - and stop being Govey goady

Is your child at Barrowford Primary?

It's called spelling city Penelope.

It doesn't have to be one or the other. DS goes to a very traditional school e.g. Required Latin but they also use iPads and online research extensively.

Son's state school has 80 iPads bought by the 'friends' of the school from money raised by fetes etc. He told me they were using them today to play games (I assume educational games). He's in Reception. I assume they got a bulk discount from Apple.

jennifer I've heard that schools that have rushed to get all the kids iPads have completely wasted the technology by not training staff in how to use them and there are a lot of schools who planned to go down that route are quietly backing out.

The OP should also be aware that there is a major backlash against progressive teaching methods such as guide on the side bollocks and chalk and talk is becoming acceptable (or even encouraged) again. A new report out yesterday even suggests that teachers need to start using decent textbooks to teach from.

Well that’s nice. It’ll be interesting to see how the practicalities work out.

Meh

Meh

Noblegiraffe- could you post some links about your statements, please? I'd like to know more.

Ugh, I think we had that 'guide on the side' INSET day in about 2009. It was utter bollocks.

Unfortunately, what you sometimes get is that the member of SLG who has been put in charge of 'talks to parents', is the fluffy one.

A few years ago our person in charge of this mostly specialised in parroting whatever INSET we'd done most recently, nicking other people's resources, wearing slightly more expensive suits than her colleagues, & blinking. very. slowly. whenever anyone asked her a slightly challenging question.

Other, more capable, SLG are doing the actual policy stuff, because 'talks to parents' just isn't very exciting, & doesn't do much for the career trajectory.

I'd take it all with a massive pinch of salt tbh.

This recent report from the Sutton Trust shows that discovery learning is not effective, discrediting all that bollocks trendy stuff about 'guide on the side'.

Sometimes I wonder if they realise that it was precisely that traditional acquisition of knowledge and classical type of education, so hated, that has enabled them to be as successful as they often are?

Oh, right. Like my cousin who went on from his traditional, classical education to drop out of a law degree, got a job in computers but dropped out when they advanced so much he couldn't understand them, dabbled in psychotherapy despite having nil qualifications, and now drives school coaches?

I teach in a private school and we are not selective. Our results are much better than the local comprehensive though. Maybe it's the smaller class sizes.

Private schools may not be selective by academic ability but that's not the only form of selection. Private schools select by parents' ability to pay large sums of money regularly, and by parental interest in education to the point where they opt out of the state system and apply for private education.

Those factors also make a difference to results.

Hakluyt re iPads it's the impression I've got from Twitter so hard to pin down. I know that my school was all set down the iPad route a couple of years ago, consultations with parents about how to get them to pay etc, and now the project has been completely shelved. I have a friend in a school where all the teachers were given iPads. Just that, and a couple of leaflets on how to set up email and the like. The expectation was that teachers would learn how to use them, and share ideas and teach each other. A year later and some teachers don't bring them to school because they have no use for them, and most that do just use them for email and note taking. No training has been a big issue. Also, they don't connect to the projectors in the classrooms so can't make an impact in teaching.
There has been plenty of criticism of iPad projects (like here donaldclarkplanb.blogspot.co.uk/2013/02/too-cool-for-school-7-reasons-why.html ) and also public failures, like the embarrassing failure of a huge iPad scheme in LA which will be making schools rethink.

Re Guide on the side - the Sutton Trust report linked above. Also Ofsted have rewritten their observation guidelines to ensure that teachers are not marked down for teacher talk, kids sitting passively and listening, and for not working actively in groups all the time. Ofsted was a big driver in forcing teachers to use progressive teaching methods and now they're making it clear that traditional methods are acceptable (see changes to inspection handbook www.ofsted.gov.uk/news/revised-guidance-for-inspections-of-maintained-schools-and-academies]] )

News about schools needing a return to decent textbooks here www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-30129639

'Also Ofsted have rewritten their observation guidelines to ensure that teachers are not marked down for teacher talk, kids sitting passively and listening, and for not working actively in groups all the time. Ofsted was a big driver in forcing teachers to use progressive teaching methods and now they're making it clear that traditional methods are acceptable'

Oh good. Sage on the stage, guide on the side always annoyed me when it was touted as the only good way to teach. Somewhat like the Osmosis approach of the 70s.
Why is listening always seen as passive anyway? Just because you can't see brain activity doesn't mean the children are flatlining when you talk. Like listening to a storyteller, or watching a play. being in a good lecture. Learning is happening.

Sorry, Working Ofsted link here www.ofsted.gov.uk/news/revised-guidance-for-inspections-of-maintained-schools-and-academies

Yeah.

1. I want to see the progress reports, in all subjects and areas, and compare them to the progress with the former teaching styles and the current teaching styles.

2. The whole point of a teacher is that they use a mix of styles and approaches in every lesson and with every learner, that's what teaching is. Otherwise just issue each kid with an ipad and an IT supervisor/responsible adult per room and why bother with a trained teacher at all. There will also naturally be a range in every room depending on the teacher's individual style and approach and expertise and the individual needs of the children in that group this year. Any teaching approach that rigidly uses one style of delivery for all children and all teachers because 'this is the answer' is covered in red flags for me.

3. Narrowing the gap, anyone? Most children in most need of educational help are already bloody brilliant on electronic gadetry, in part because of the limited demands it makes. These skills often don't transfer well out of the ITC teaching game to real functional activities. ie the child's scores on the machine improve, their actual learning doesn't.

I wonder if this is paving the way for children working through a textbook/online course to save money on qualified teachers.

No. Finland was quoted as having a high level of textbook use (I think the report was mainly maths focused) but they also have very well qualified teachers.

Interesting. My son's school uses loads of online stuff. All homework is online, for example, and some can be submitted online too. Teachers put links that they think are useful/interesting.

There are no textbooks, because the school has a very disadvantaged catchment with many chaotic complicated families and they just went missing all the time and it was financially impossible to replace them. But putting everything online means that all the children (there are no children without access to the internet at home) have at least the basic information they need. There is a dedicated address they can send work to to be printed. And the school computer suite is open til 5.30 so if anyone does have problems with internet access they have 2 hours every day they can use it at school.

I found it incredibly difficult to get my head round the no textbooks thing at first. But now I've seen it in action I can see that it works. It does require the teachers to be properly engaged with the system though, and to update their stuff regularly. So far ds has only had one who wasn't very good at it, and he is learning!

No guarantee we'd do it the Finland way though noble. They do like to pick and choose the bits of educational policy they fancy without context.

I loved textbooks as a child. They were very frowned upon at teacher training. Now I'm not sure.