to complain about these vehicles parked in the disabled parking spaces?

[HedgehogsDontBite]

I have a blue badge and frequently have to compete over bb spaces with non badge holders. I never normally challenge because I'm too scared of the consequences. But I think these guys are really taking the piss. They are currently working on the outside of the supermarket (looks like they're putting up lights). Both yesterday and today I was unable to park because their work vans are taking up all the disabled space. Today it was 2 vans parked sideways across the 4 spaces. I was so annoyed I ask them to move but was told the vans needed to be like this so they could access the contents (sides roll up).

AIBU to complain?

Andrewofgg

If a lift is the only way to move between floors in a building, then it's a de facto adaptation.

And I can tell you for nothing that good manners are in shorty supply in Big Society Britain.

LurkingHusband Where is a lift the only way to move between floors? There is always a stairwell somewhere.

Andrewofgg

Sorry, you're right. Thank goodness for those stair-climbing wheelchairs.

Our local Lidl are having some renovations done that have put the trolley park out of use.

So they're using the BB spaces as a temporary trolley park. Stupidity in it's simplest form.

I have been known to park behind cars without a blue badge so that they can't exit until I am ready.
I really don't understand why they get so irate.
Equally, I do love it when the penny drops.

Dawn whilst I fully understand WHY you'd do that, have you never had a ticket yourself for not parking within a marked bay?

Lurking I am confused. You were talking of a lift being the only way to move between floors and the lift therefore being a de facto adaptation.

I said it never is the only way.

Do you know any building with no stairs to the upper floors?

`my point is that unless there are banks and banks of lifts, so that one can be made the wheelchair/crutches (and buggies? Let's not go there!) lift, you cannot treat the lift like BB spaces in the car park. Not controversial, I thought, but this is MN . . .

At my local hospital the diabetic clinic is on the 3rd floor of a tower block. If the lift is not working the stairs are open tread. Apart from my disability stopping me walking up 3 flights I cannot even look at the stairs without having a panic attack because I cannot stand the open treads and would also set off a vertigo attack which would mean that if I got to the 3rd floor I would have to lie down. I would just miss my appointment.

i have now got visions of wheelchairs "climbing" stairs like daleks

I think that it's reasonable to work on the principle that if there's only limited room in a lift, the wheelchair user should always go first. After all, as you rightly point out, Andrew, the able-bodied can use the stairs.

Depends. I work on the 12th floor and I can't get the whole way by the stairs.

Andrewofgg

Without wishing to sound snarky, I reckon this thread should be preserved in aspic, as a paradigm of the problems facing the less-able when engaging with general society. By insisting (over two posts, even after the issue was hinted at by myself) that the existence of stairs means there is always an alternative method of moving between floors in all situations, you have clearly not considered the needs of those people unable to use stairs.

I am sure every person reading this thread who has mobility problems - the wheelchair being the most extreme case - will be able to recount tales where they have found a well-meaning, but ignorant person has completely overlooked their situation. A good example being our local hospital 18 years ago, which spent £10,000,000 on a refit, and managed to have doors which a wheelchair couldn't go through. The disabled toilets had clearly been laid out by someone who wasn't disabled - the giveaway being the (only) mirror at standing height. After giving birth to DS, MrsLH decided that the fact not a single shower in the building was accessible meant we went home - less than 12 hours after giving birth, where I washed the blood off properly.

I accept that lifts are a disability adaptation - but are people suggesting that only blue badge holders should be allowed to use them?

I don't have a blue badge, but I do have some mobility issues - because of my weight (clearly my own fault, but still real - but not major - issues) - so am I allowed to use the lifts? Obviously I would not go into a lift if it meant that someone with a disability was left waiting for the next one.

What about parents with buggies? Someone with loads of shopping?

Lurkinghusband - it is dispiriting to hear that there is still such a lack of common sense - or of involvement of the end-users - in hospital design. When I was a nurse (back in the last century) my training hospital had a beautiful, brand new surgical wing built. The theatres were grouped into a suite, with a 'dirty' corridor running behind them. After each operation, the staff wrapped up the trays of instruments and pushed them through a hatch, to be collected from the dirty corridor, cleaned, repacked and sterilised - except that, in the General theatre, the hatch wasn't big enough for the trays to go through!!

Then, when I was expecting ds2, our local hospital had a new maternity unit. It wasn't until the midwives were shown round the labour ward that someone pointed out it mightn't be the best idea to have clear glass in the doors to the labour rooms, as the beds were directly opposite the doors, and anyone walking past would have had a perfect view, straight up the chuff of any woman delivering in the beds!!

"Straight up the chuff..."

i have never minded waiting for a lift, but it is annoying when able bodied people use them instead of escalators in shopping centres. but it isn't the end of the world

I would definitely use the escalators rather than the lifts, in a shopping centre.

I hate waiting for a lift and am lucky enough not to need one most of the time as i am very impatient, and prefer to use the stairs/escalators - In Crawley in West Sussex, they have actually REMOVED one set of escalators from the end of the Mall and its a bloody nightmare for people trying to use the lifts. I dont go there very often any more, but it takes twice as long when i'm with my elderly mum as she cannot use the stairs, but would come on the escalator with me

Luckily it's rare, but on occasion MrsLH and I have been waiting for a lift, and every time it stops, it's full, after 5 or 6 times, I will go up the stairs, and "bag" the lift when it's empty, and then get out when it's at MrsLHs floor, so she can get in. There is a certain amusement seeing a bunch of folks who are already doing their best to avoid eye contact trying even harder to avoid eye contact - especially if MrsLH and I play act like we don't know one another (really, lifes too short).

Another tip for folks, depending on where you are, is to look for store lifts which make the same journey - they tend to be less busy.

For some reason, there's a trend to build new hypermarkets upstairs, which means a wheelchair user can only get into the store via a lift . The upside being they tend to have acres of BB parking.

LurkingHusband I don't use lifts when I could use the escalator or the stairs, but it will depend on how much shopping [I am] [DW and I are] carrying, how many floors, up or down. It's not like a BB space which I would never use.

Anyone know the Galleria in Hatfield?

Built on two levels connected by lifts and escalators. But at the bottom of the escalators there are steps down, so those who use crutches or sticks or just don't manage stairs well compete with the wheelchairs for the lifts. And since the lifts provide the main access to the car-parks, people without disabilities use them too. There are stairs but families with young children, even above buggy age, don't seem to want to take them and their shopping up several flights.

Oh yes, and the gents' loo are in a floor which is only accessible by a flight of stairs!

Built in 1991. How the hell did it get planning permission?

Andrewofgg

Are you saying there's no toilet provision for the less-able ? Possibly combined with a changing area ?

Built in 1991. How the hell did it get planning permission?

that's 23 years ago (plus another 3,4 for the planning, so more like 30), deep into the prehistory of accessibility issues. Hopefully nowadays architects get some insight into accessibility issues. Although I suspect in most cases it'll be an A4 handout to accompany a 1 hour module on a Friday afternoon - but I stand to be pleasantly corrected.

Andrewofgg

thanks for the heads up, btw - Hatfield Galleria added to list of places not to visit.