An old, minor, criminal record does tend to tell you quite a bit about a person

[BoldAdventurer]

Until recently I would have said that once a person's done their time, maybe learned from their mistakes and moved on it's time to let them put it behind them. I'm not talking about Ched Evans but much less serious crimes.

However, in my current job I get to see staff's DBS checks (and old CRB checks). We employ a lot of people on not much more than minimum wage and there are a handful who have spent convictions. One is for ABH when she was a teenager and there are a number of benefit frauds. These are all people who have been working for the company for a number of years and at the time of thier appointment, it was considered that their past wasn't relevant to their ability to do the job and that if you pay badly you take what you can get .

Anyway, these few staff are more trouble than the rest put together. They are the ones who often make mistakes on their timesheets, but strangely always in their favour, the ones who have loads of one day absences, the ones who do the bare minimum when they are in work, the ones who stir up trouble when unpopular changes are made etc.

So, AIBU, to think that whilst these convictions are very old and it's reasonable to expect that they could be forgotten, they do in fact give quite a good indication of the person's character?

Yet, on the other hand, they have managed to hold down their shitty little jobs for a number of years without giving you grounds to sack them. They must be doing something right.

Can't really help you, OP. Everyone I know who's been in prison is a lovely person whom I trust. One is my neighbour who keeps my spare keys.

Which is more than can be said for some of the sanctimonious little gits in my life (sadly there are always a few). Butter wouldn't melt in their mouths, but you would be very foolish to trust them with anything important in your life.

I'm quite sure there are also plenty of twats who have minor, spent convictions. But you're toting anecdote, so this is mine.

Most people don't know you can decline to accept a caution or would have the presence of mind or courage to decline it. Especially if they know they are in the wrong and feel the need to accept punishment.

Especially if the custody sergeant that gives the caution (after several hours spent stewing in custody feeling ashamed and just wanting to go home) snaps at you for querying the value due to an arithmetical error of the missing recoverable and merchantable quality items. Which no doubt got sold.

When this error of arithmetic was queried with the CAB the advice was just pay the fine and get on with the rest of your life.

1. Confirmation bias.
2. Unrepresentative sampling.

Your post sounds like a sexed-up description of "my company isn't a particularly nice or well-paid place to work, and it has some dipsticks who have never got the hang of being effectively dishonest". Well yes. Your nmw company sounds exactly like the standard destination for the people who get caught and who mostly turn themselves around, but not completely.

The people who have completely moved on, and completely learned from their mistakes, are quite possibly working at nicer companies for a better wage, setting up their own businesses, etc.

One might speculate that the people who never get caught put their skills to good use in relevant industries...

Wow OP, sorry but I can just imagine you with your Daily Mail. Try not being so judgemental.
I know people with this mindset, a person gets done for petty theft at 18 and is still treated as a criminal at the age of 42. Very holier than thou IMO and says more about the person with this mindset than the supposed criminal. Well said.
I also know people who are unethical and have done nothing illegal in their life, that I would not want my child around or looking up to. Exactly.
Wondering where compassion has gone in this society.
I work as a support worker, some people have convictions - mostly petty and mostly when mentally unwell and/ or under duress. E.g. shoplifting food because otherwise they would starve, due to benefits being stuffed up and not enough to live on anyway. Frankly they're nicer people than judgemental naice middle-class twats who have never suffered in their lives.

If you treat people like shit they tend to focus on things that are important condition wise.

I know a bloke who owns a newsagent he employs female carers at the NMW treats them like casuals who he begrudges paying most of them are educated (pretty sure one has a Ph.D) all are very nice every single one has worked there longer than 8 years. He bitches about everything he has to do as an employer they struggle to even get paid holiday out of him and he truly believes they are all stupid. He gets away with it because they need employment and due to being carers they are more vulnerable. He's never looked at the situation and thought hang on a sec these women are assisting me with keeping my business open so I can run it from afar with little interaction, he often wonders why they badger him about things like statutory annual leave or being paid for the hours you work or not cutting down their contracted hours on a whim a few of them may take fag breaks or the odd personal call he refers to them all as trouble makers.

Rather surprisingly the shop recently had an issue that could have forced its closure,every single one of these women clubbed together to fix it.

When I started typing this I has a point but unfortunately I got distracted and have now forgotten it perhaps it was something along the lines of your company may be not dissimilar to him,perhaps the behaviour is caused by conditions and has bugger all to do with their personality.

I know lots of people with criminal convictions, many of whom are some of the nicest people I know who I trust implicitly.

I much prefer having people like that in my life than judgemental and sanctimonious people like you OP.

All I've taken from the op statement is that if you want respect, don't get caught.

Well, obviously!

This is why ignorant idiots like the OP should never have access to sensitive data.

OP

I think you are breaching the data protection act.

If an old 'spent' conviction is irrelevant to the work why are you asking for 'enhanced' DBS?

In fact why are you asking for any DBS?

Because of the subject I teach, the students I teach, have to be DBS checked. Different colleges handle it in different ways, the one I think is fairest is allowing self disclosure and a meeting with senior staff to discuss anything that turns up on the DBS.

I don't think shouting at your mum in the street at age 10 means you are a danger to service users when you are 19, even if it does show up as 'assault' on your criminal record, particularly when the police told you, "it is only a caution, it will be wiped from your record when you are 18"

I have a spent conviction for something very silly I did when I was younger. I regret it with every bone in my body. Nobody was hurt apart from me. I'm a delight to employ, of course I spend a lot of my time trying to avoid jobs that do advanced checks because I'm still (decades later) so ashamed. I work hard, don't fiddle about with hours, am never late, don't take the piss with calling in sick. Always in the back of mind is that some silly fool will check or somehow find out that I made a silly mistake when I was young, unhappy and ill and it looks like you're the type of bored, nosy, self satisfied eejit that would revel in doing that OP.

I think your very unprofessional and ignorant attitude says more about you than the people you are judging.

Nope. I don't feel that is true OP. Maybe in some cases you find a dodgy sort that thinks they are above the rules and this runs into their work and personal life, but you also find many others that have just made mistakes along the way and it doesn't make them a bad person. I got a fixed penalty notice 5 years ago for shoplifting. It was a genuine mistake and I've never in my life knowingly shoplifted. But I knew I couldn't prove it was unintentional and so I accepted the fine so I could leave the shop and have it done with. I'm a good person who would never shirk or fiddle things to my advantage and it makes me sad that people like you would write me off just because they see that on my dbs.

Here's a scenario for you OP:

When he was very much younger, someone was running down a street and thrust a lit firework into my father's hand. He did what most people would do and threw it in panic. His action was seen by a passing police officer and he was arrested and later charged. I'm not sure for how long this would remain on his record, but say it did remain, would you consider my father to be a pyrotechnic maniac?

He's nearly 85 btw.

YABU.

I agree this is interesting, OP.
Statistically (i.e., over a group of many people) you can predict the probability of (some types of) future behaviours quite accurately based on past behaviours.
For me, the problem is that you can't do this very well at the level of an individual. So to write off whole groups of ex-offenders is to write off many people who will not offend again. And some of the people who will re-offend could be helped not to by trying to make some of the injustices in their lives less pronounced.

To abuse the OP for being "judgmental" for pointing out a statistical link is hilarious.

I am horrified that someone who is able to see DBS checks has these attitudes and is prepared to air them on a public forum. I am hiding this thread.

No one here has any idea what the OP's job is (as far as I can see). Presumably, part of her job is to see these checks (or she wouldn't have access). If you think too much info's available to employers by law, then fair enough, you're probably right. But how is that the OP's problem?

There is nothing in the OP which breaches anyone's confidentiality.

Careful up there on your moral high horses lest someone accidentally gives you a shove.

YABU. DH made one stupid mistake, it was the first and last time he did it and he was extremely stressed at the time.
He got a caution and is deeply ashamed of it, at the back of his mind is a little niggle that people might find out about it and it could affect his career prospects.
He is a kind, gentle, honest person. He's well liked at work and good at his job. Thankfully not everyone thinks like you op.

Op, get this thread deleted. You are talking about company 'troublemakers' but I think you'll find what you are doing here is gross misconduct if not completely illegal.

Gross misconduct? Seriously? Without identifying any individual, or the company, or even the crimes? (beyond saying that there is a female who commited ABH as a teenager)

DBS clearances are an aid to deciding whether to appoint a candidate or not. They should be used at point of a job offer, or in the case of an enhanced check before interview. They are not supposed to be used in checking whether the person has any previous after they are employed and are bring labelled as a troublemaker.

So what the company is doing is illegal/amounts to gross misconduct, piper? Even if you can indeed tell this is the case from the OP's posts (and I'm not sure we have enough details to know), does it mean her OP should be deleted? She wanted to discuss something, which she attempted to do under complete anonymity.

You only joined/name changed yesterday Bold and here you are stirring it. Do fuck off, there's a dear. And when you've done that, you'd best check you're not traceable, because goodness me, if I managed to work out who you are, I'd be onto your company so fast your arse would be handed to you on a plate before you could blink.

But the op has said that she is doing it, not the company. Either way there are very strict guidelines about the use of DBS clearances and personal information. Whether she deletes it or not is her business, but my advice would be to get it deleted.