to think we should all back edd to stop the tories and ukip getting into power

[wilsonq2]

This weekend many people in labour have turned against edd. I think its just too late to replace him and we should support him to stop the other two getting in
The has tag has been hijacked I think, not sure if it is genuine.

[bodhranbae]

UKIP are a vile fucking joke.

I stumbled on the local group having a photo session last month.
All of them male, white, 50s/60s all guffawing their stupid wheezy fag-smoking fucking heads off like that berk Farage.

It was like the bar of some cheesy fucking golf club.

Is that the future people want for their kids?
Some crappy version of 1950s repression? How can anyone - particularly any WOMAN - endorse these fuckers?

They want to scrap maternity leave and maternity pay.
They want to enable employers to discriminate on the basis of gender.
They want to scrap all legislation pertaining to sexual harassment in the workplace.
One of their major donors claimed that there is no such thing as marital rape.
FFS both female MEPs left the party because of Neanderthal attitudes to women and one won a sexual discrimination case against them.
And it goes on and on .....

[FraidyCat]

immigration is not on the whole a problem for the whole of the UK. It's generally positive (unless you are a right wing tabloid or UKIP member).

The Economist magazine was very pro-immigration, as you'd expect from an entity that favours free markets/market forces. A few years ago they backtracked and admitted that the effects of immigration on the UK were mixed, there are both winners and losers among the local population. If you were British working class in relatively less skilled lower-paid jobs, in particular areas where immigrants had a bigger impact, then the competition for jobs and publics services may well have left you worse off.

People who are reflexively/ideologically pro-immigration (as I was) need to recognise that immigration can be positive or neutral on average while still creating millions of losers among the native population.

[Dawndonnaagain]

Some things debunked. An Independent Article.

[Thebodynowchillingsothere]

Yes agree to all the above but How the fuck had Ed of the Labour Party highlighted these things or attempted to understand just why perfectly normal people vote for them?

The Tories are at least trying to look like they listen and openly discuss immigration and the EU but Ed dithers and looks daft and embarrassed.

He is ruining the Labour Party.

[FraidyCat]

And the losers are most likely to be those who were the worst off in the first place.

[HeeHiles]

When labour are in power the country goes tits up

Actually the Tories managed to fuck up the economy quite spectacularly in the late 80's - 90's mass unemployment, interest rates at 16%!!!!! my mortgage doubled overnight, repossessions, mass migration.....it was horrendous, London was like a ghost down, derelict buildings everywhere. ERM fiasco and if this lot carry on we'll be seeing the same again quite soon.

In saying that I follw Ed on twitter and facebook and don't read tabloids and he seems decent, but he's not socialist enough. He will carry on with austerity, he talks of affordable homes, not council. I have always photed Labour locally as I have a fantastic MP but not sure I will vote for Ed. I really want to vote Green - would love a Green/Labour coalition.

[foxdongle]

I'm backing Ed

A potential UKIP/Tory alliance is terrifying

[aermingers]

Who on earth mentioned benefit fraud? I don't think that's relevant to this conversation.

The problem with a living wage is that it won't remain a living wage for long if you have plenty of people who are willing to work for it. It would be a green light for private landlords to put up rental prices which would hit the working poor hardest, the people who have never been able to save for their own home because they live hand to mouth, but have never gone down the route of social housing because they've always had just enough money to keep them going down the route of homelessness. Inflation would go up, supermarkets and fuel companies would put up their prices and it would essentially become meaningless and just the same as the minimum wage and just another meaningless line in the sand which didn't guarantee any sort of decent life.

The only way to make the life of the working poor better is to stop the flow of unlimited cheap labour which is suppressing wages. We need some to fill gaps, but not the unlimited flow we have at the moment. It's not just unskilled jobs either, jobs like building, mechanics, accountancy and secretarial administration which all used to provide a decent standard of living pay little more than poverty wages these days. I don't believe the lie that there are jobs that British workers 'won't do', I think it's just that there are jobs British people can't afford to do. After all, if you are a Hungarian who is coming over to work here for two years you may well find it acceptable for 2 years to live six to a room and work 12 hour shifts six days a week. But if you are British and it's not just something you're doing temporarily, it's your whole life for the foreseeable future, that's just not acceptable.

We don't invest in our young people any more because it's cheaper to bring in someone trained elsewhere so they are left languishing jobless. It's unacceptable to advocate mass immigration when we have a youth unemployment problem.

The £20 billion figure also doesn't take into account all the tax credits and housing benefit which is being paid out due to low pay. Until the flow of cheap labour stops life is never going to improve for anybody but the middle classes.

Labour are not and cannot be the party of the working class while they support mass immigration. They are doing the most harm to the people they are supposed to represent. Labour is the party of wealthy university educated middle class people who have benefited from cheap labour with their nannies, cleaners, gardeners and au pairs. They are not the party of the working class.

Unfortunately nobody else has stepped into the breech they've left behind for the working class. Although UKIP want to stop mass immigration their economic policies would be catastrophic for the working class. Labour has left the working classes basically totally disenfranchised. Nobody represents their interests.

[bodhranbae]

The Body - I do agree with you that all Ed really has to do is lay out some simple facts about UKIP and they will vanish back into the slime they crawled out from.

People are very blinkered (dim?) - they do not see beyond the immigration issue - they just need facts about UKIP and Farage spelling out to them.

Take UKIPs association with the European far right and Farage's alliance with the far-right Polish fruitcake Korwin-Mikke.
This is a man who thinks women take on attributes from men's sperm by absorbing it into our tissue.
And that women are only entitled to privileges but not rights.
And that democracy should be abolished and replaced with an absolute monarchy.
But failing that he wanted to strip women of the right to vote.
Even Le Pen decided that Korwin-Mikke was too right wing for them but Farage has welcomed him with open arms.

We should be jeering at these people not taking them fucking seriously.

[foxdongle]

With Labour you also get a chancellor with an actual degree in economics

instead of a posh twat

[aermingers]

Dawndonnaagain, do you mean that's an Independent article as in the newspaper Independent? It's not, it's the Guardian. It's not 'independent' either because (like most newspapers) the Guardian is highly partisan. It honestly just makes me laugh that some sections of people will present things in the Guardian as unbiased fact and then will claim in all seriousness that they are intelligent.

I cannot see anything 'debunked' in that article either. It's an imaginary account which makes several assumptions which would not necessarily be reasonable to make if the writer had been writing a factual article rather than a fantasy piece.

If you think that article proves anything beyond your own lack of critical awareness then then you're deluded.

[aermingers]

Yes, but under Labour you get a lot less chance of getting your own economics degree. Who abolished the grant and introduced tuition fees?

[clam]

foxdongle You're recommending Ed Balls as a prospective Chancellor????


Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

[Territt16]

This is a simple one to fix, let people vote on the EU, the most votes win?

A nice and simple way to deal with it.

[NoRoomInTheInn]

*... To think we should all back Edd..."

"all" ?
YABU to think everyone has the the same political views as you.

[FluffyMcnuffy]

YABVU.

Although I am even more shocked at the people who plan to vote green given the mess that the leader of their party made of one constituency.

[foxdongle]

Instead of an entitled toff who can't use a calculator?

Hell yes

[DrDre]

I don't know who I will vote for yet but it will not be Labour.
I am convinced we will have a Conservative government next time. I think Labour will lose a lot of seats in Scotland, and this will effectively stop them becoming the government.

[ScrambledSmegs]

I don't know who to vote for. They're all shit.

We're fucked, aren't we?

[DrDre]

I also agree with the poster who said Ed was wrong not to mention the deficit in his conference speech. I think that was a big mistake, that was the point they became a lost cause to me.

[clam]

See, this is what frustrates me about some Labour voters. They're so blinded by class hatred that in my view they've lost the debate before they start.
So here we have "posh twat" and "entitled toff." Can you imagine the uproar if politicians were derided in similar terms for their working class credentials? "Jumped-up chav?"

Ed Balls has got a dire record behind him and I don't know how he has the gall to be interviewed on TV berating the Government in their attempts to put right some of the damage that Balls and his mates made as the recession hit. Osborne might not be the perfect candidate for the job, but leave his background out of it - judge him on his actions.

[JustAShopGirl]

Don't really care WHO is chancellor of the exchequer - it is the civil service that does the bean counting and advises on policy. "Yes Minister" is a lot more real than many think.....

[silveroldie2]

YABU - I will vote for the Tories, hoping they get a clear majority to continue getting this country back on its feet, followed by a referendum which will hopefully extract us from the EU.

I am also disabled and have no concerns that my health needs will continue to be met under a future Conservative government as they are at present and have been in the past.

Ed Milliband is beyond weird and I doubt you will see him for dust once he and labour lose the next GE.

[DrDre]

Reading Anthony Seldon's biography of Gordon Brown makes for illuminating reading about Ed Balls. Completely self serving and unnecessarily aggressive. Putting his needs before the national interest whenever they came into conflict and scheming against his colleagues. I for one do not want to see him as Chancellor, even if he has studied economics.

[drudgetrudy]

Dawndonnagain

I think its sad that intelligent people are sidelined because they don't have the right look for the media. (eg your example of Michael Foot).
Personally I think they have odd taste if they think that Margaret Thatcher, Tony Blair and David Cameron come across well in that way but ,in any case, I wish this wasn't the most important consideration.

I am really fed up of the way in which the media seem to lead the electorate by the nose to serve their vested interests.
YY to the posters who have pointed out UKIPs attitude to women and to many minority groups.
In the horrible event of a Tory/UKIP coalition people will soon realise what they have done