to agree with the red cross for sacking someone that protested about gay marriage

[pixie130]

I think I will donate to them in support of this action. The daily mail is outraged against this

slithytove

Yes it is, what is your argument that it isn't?

Basically by disagreeing with gay marriage you're saying you wish for a person to be denied their legal right to share the privilege of marriage (as heterosexuals do) based solely on their sexual orientation. How is that not homophobic?

No, strictly speaking you don't have to be homophobic to be against gay marriage. Not, if your objection is based on a reason.

But if you ask what they reason is many will say that god said it was wrong. Now as an atheist that doesn't carry much weight with me, but it makes a difference if they honestly believe it.

So is that the honest reason? It could be for some.

But here's Fred who hardly goes to church at all, but spends his time drinking, and fornicating and coveting his neighbours ass. He puts down his glass long enough to say "it aint right- the bible says so".

Do we think his opinion is based on sincere belief and obedience to the will of god?

How about Jane who is against all gay people and likes to quote Leviticus, but who has no problem with wearing mixed fibres etc. How sincere is that?

Too many people look in the bible (or the koran) to find a reason for the hate/fear they already feel.

Oh I don't mind if we have Gay Pride Day - any excuse for a celebration. But it won't be to raise awareness any more as everyone will know what being gay means.

I disagree. Black people were kept as slaves for hundreds of years. If people argued against not allowing black people in the same places as white people, their reason being it was against hundreds of years of tradition then I'd still say they were racist.

Fine if you're religious and don't believe in gay marriage, but don't try and pretend it's not homophobia when it is.

(you as in the collective you, not you personally!)

I will find out the reason. But i don't accept that not wanting gay marriage directly translates to "the irrational hatred, intolerance, and fear of lesbian, gay and bisexual (LGB) people" - stonewall.org.uk

nogaymarriage.wordpress.com/2008/11/11/why-i-oppose-gay-marriage/

So are you calling those who are both opposers to gay marriage, and gay themselves homophobic?

I actually agree with a pp up thread who suggested keeping civil partnerships for everyone and marriage for those who are religious and want to marry in a church and follow those teachings. Obviously both categories would still encompass both straight and gay couples.

Fine if you're religious and don't believe in gay marriage, but don't try and pretend it's not homophobia when it is.

That's the thing fluffy. The Church (the institution) is institutionally homophobic, misogynistic, imperialistic etc etc.

Where you have true believers who can't see that and are trying to adhere to their understanding (there are of course multiple denomninations, multiple interpretations) of the pure tenets of religion, it gets messy. But that is the narrative of all organized religion.

Maybe the question is can a non-homophobe believe a homophobic teaching?

I'm not saying that anyone opposing marriage for all is right btw, regardless of their sexual orientation. But I can't equate opposition of gay marriage (hate that term btw, surely it's just marriage) to homophobia that neatly.

The general definition of homophobia (Per the Oxford dictionary) is "dislike of or prejudice against homosexual people".

Homophobic - to be prejudiced against homosexual people.

Please explain to me how opposing the legal right of gay people to marry based purely on their sexuality isn't homophobic?

I think it's a slippery slope going down this path. But I see he is a volunteer and his work involved working with gay people seeking asylum. Why wasn't he allowed to volunteer with other asylum seekers. That would have been a more sensible option. IMHO.

YY slithy that was me. There are already some churches that offer marriage ceremonies to gay couples, I think.

Oh yes, it's a real slippery slope to not be tolerant of people who are homophobic .

The thing is you can be branded homophobe these days for whatever.

Dog please expand on that....

If whatever means denying gays equal rights then yes that is homoohobic

Fluffy the law on speech relating to sexuality has to be threatening, different for racial speech.
Intolerance in public life is always a slippery slope, we have fought and continue to fight for public tolerance for all.
You can be privately as intolerant as you want, and I am gald to not know you, although as that may be considered abusive, it is probably illegal in your head.

Carol your post makes no sense. Where have I said that opposing gay marriage is illegal? It isn't . It's homophobic but not illegal.

You know one of the reasons it was ok to keep black slaves in the US was that the bible 'supported it'

They wanted to have black slaves so they looked in the bible and found in Genesis the bit where Noah's son Ham finds his father passed out naked after drinking too much. Since Ham called his brothers instead of throwing a blanket over dad he was cursed to be a slave (and god made him black though that's not really explained)

That and the fact that the bible says slavery in general is a good thing.

So it could be argued that someone might genuinely believe they were following the bible when they treated black people as subhuman.

Just like someone might genuinely believe they were following the bible when they said gay people can't marry (or adopt, rent a room, or buy a cake)

So you don't automatically have to be a racist or a homophobe just because you act like one, but it's the most likely reason by a long way.

If whatever means denying gays equal rights then yes that is homophobic
If certain rights are defined by law, how can your beliefs or protests actually deny anything to anyone?

Personal example. Had a conversation with somebody about nightclubs. That somebody said -- "I am not a homophobe, i have no problem going to gay clubs." Ok, no problem, but no, thanks, i'm not interested. Dozens of clubs in our city, i'll go to the ones i like.

Yes but if you.believed gays couldn't go to any clubs they wanted then that would be homophobic.

Or that they shouldnt be allowed to marry

Yeah it often comes down to stopping someone else doing something and not something that affects them (or anyone on their side) directly.

In this case no one is trying to force them to get married to someone of the same sex.

The anti-choice people are not being forced to have abortions.

Sometimes it's a film they don't like, but they are not being forced to go see it.

Fluffy you sound increasingly like a one woman thought police.
If you are against a woman's legal right to an abortion, are you misogynistic? People are entitled to a view on what is another person's legal right without discriminating against that person. An individual in a free society can oppose gay marriage without being labelled a homophobic. It sounds like a claxon call to close down all debate. Just wheel out the H word. Much like those that that shout racist whenever there is a debate about immigration.

How can you equate gay marriage to immigration when gay marriage has absolutely no affect on you or the UK as a whole? Immigration is a completely separate social issue which can impact the economy etc. I wasn't aware gay people getting married affected anyone other than the gay people themselves?