to think that in the Uk you should speak English at work?

[Wrongornot]

I can't make up my mind?

My employer have banned the use of any language other that English being spoken during working hours?

Are they being unreasonable?

www.scotsman.com/news/odd/lidl-polish-workers-banned-from-speaking-own-language-1-3596137

(Regular but name changed)

I love it when they do that alenci as I HATE small talk with people. I can fiddle with my phone and relax.

i really don't. i wish they would make more effort to talk to me. It would improve their English.

People who feel they are being excluded when they hear other people talking in their native tongue need to grow up.

or perhaps they speak perfectly good English but i don't think this is the case.

I left a job because almost all the other staff spoke Urdu to each other. It was when I worked in a nursing home. I was always excluded. Never had anyone to talk to on a break. I was only 17 and felt intimidated.

Dh speaks 5 languages, English is his third. When at work if a colleague addresses him in a different language he answers in English. The only time he speaks a different language in work is if it is to help the patient and family. He was horrified when I told him about my old job. He feels very strongly that he chose to move to England and in the workplace you speak in the countries language.

Yanbu.

I speak another language, and I would never chat away to someone else who speaks the same language in front of customers.

It IS so so rude. My df is being looked after by carers popping in and out, and they talk amongst themselves. He finds it rude too, being a foreigner himself. But, that's probably as I've been brought up with better manners tbh.

In my previous job, it was actually banned to speak in any other language other than English with my colleagues. This was because it was a major safety issue. Although, we could speak said other language with the passengers customers.

I have no issues when these people discuss business which is nothing to do with me in Urdu. It is not my concern what they are saying and if they find it easier to converse in their first language that is fine by me.
What ryalls me up is when I am having a conversation with them in English and during the conversation they start talking among themselves about me in Urdu. Like I am no longer in the room. After a couple of minutes one of them will offer a one sentence summary of what has been said that I am sure excludes the vast majority of the conversation. It is downright rude.

What the fuck is it with monoglot English speakers? It's like you're actively offended by the existence of other languages. Bizarre attitude that doesn't seem to be held outside the Anglophone world.

Wow.

I'd say that in the company I work in, there's about a 50% chance of any conversation I walk past being in English.

To be honest, I think it would be bonkers to require two Spanish-speaking (or Russian-speaking, or French-speaking) scientists to discuss a problem in English.

I think it is very rude to speak in a foreign language with someone in a group that includes people who do not speak that language.

I wont; use to a particular nail bar because the staff all talk in Vietnamese to each other whilst doing nails, and can barely answer the phone in English.

I think it is a real problem in care homes with the old and infirm - especially for patients with dementia.

I am not a monoglot English speaker. I can speak other languages, just Urdu is not one of them.
I employ immigrants and I used to employ a pair of Portugese cleaners who conversed between themselves fluently in Portugese. They worked bloody hard and if they want to chat among themselves while working in their first language I have no issue with that whatsoever.
My issue is when people talk about me in a language I cannot understand while I am stood in front of them. It excludes me from the conversation and I find that unacceptable.

"I speak another language, and I would never chat away to someone else who speaks the same language in front of customers."

But when you're on a break away from customers, obviously fine. And if a customer addressed you in that language, obviously fine again.

What the fuck is it with monoglot English speakers?

Why do you assume there are any monoglot English speakers on this thread?

There're certainly plenty of posters who have said they would never exclude an English speaker by using their native tongue in the workplace.

I work for an international company, and the working language is English. If you're on a meeting, you can expect it to be conducted in English. But it's normal to talk to customers in their preferred language where possible - not a shop floor, but business customers, so it's a bit different.

I think it's unreasonable to stop people talking whatever language they like in their break times, but if there is an issue with other colleagues feeling excluded, it's okay to take a stand on that. Language can be used to exclude people - not just foreign languages, but the specialised language of different disciplines and industries, and of also social groups, slang and so on. It can be a very powerful way of including or excluding people.

But I wouldn't want to ban different languages entirely. One of the things that keeps me working for my current employer is that I can walk down the corridor and hear English - and Polish, German, French, Italian, Spanish, Dutch, Indian languages, Asian languages. No idea what many of them are saying, but it makes life more colourful. People sometimes forget, and I have had to point out to Dutch colleagues that I'm not totally fluent (I've virtually no Dutch at all, but I can sometimes work out the gist of a sentence in context.) I love seeing the different way English gets phrased, when it's clearly influenced by German punctuation and German phrasing. Sometimes you see there are different ways of thinking about things because of language, and getting different perspectives are likely to help us get better solutions for problems.

The issue is whether languages are being used to include or exclude - if it's the latter, that's an problem and should be dealt with, but I am not sure a blanket ban is the way to go.

EBearHug,

You raise a very salient point there about specialised forms of English excluding people.

The last job I had as a doctor was on a geriatric ward with a consultant who I thought was a total tosser. He found it acceptable to gather round a patient's bed on a ward round and start conversing with other doctors in purely medical jargon. All doctors do this. What this guy did was do it in situations where a discussion would have been far more appropriate away from a patient's bedside.

We had one chap who came in with a pneumonia which failed to resolve as expected on iv antibiotics. The next concern with someone like this is the pneumonia had been kicked off by an airway obstruction, which for an elderly smoker normally means cancer. I can remember the look of fear and horror on the patient's face as he started discussing with me whether the patient could have a "sinister mitotic lesion" in his chest-doctor speak for cancer. The patient knew what we were saying even though he was not medically trained, he made a good guess. Not the way to tell someone they are dying.

At my work my boss banned all workers from talking in anything but English. This was aimed at the polish people in the kitchen. If caught speaking polish they'd not be allowed their tips at the end of the day.

I was going to say earlier - I've just been for treatment at the university dental hospital -often lots of students there.
They are fantastic (anyway!) - but one thing they do (which I felt was a bit OTT but now reading about the elderly etc I think is good practice) is they always ask if you mind (although you have already given permission) if students are there, introduce them, then ask if they can look in your mouth too and then apologise that they are going to use technical terms - ask if it is ok (again) and say they will explain everything clearly and in full to you afterwards...
And to people saying it is ok in break time but not if it is being used to bully/include/exclude - how do you enforce that rule? How do you decide that is the case? Maybe it isn't and the employee who feels slighted is just being overly sensitive? Or it is but the non-English speakers deny it...
I can see why a blanket ban may be 'needed'.
(And for the poster who said the ones feeling excluded need to grow up - does bullying never take place in the workplace? If it does should it be allowed and the person being bullied should just 'toughen up'?)

I speak Russian as my first language. I would not speak Russian in front of a customer, although any private conversation in front of a customer should be necessary and not just a chat obviously, or regularly not including someone in a conversation because they can't speak Russian, but if we're both Russian speakers and work partners or are just wandering around and there's no one who's going to feel awkward because they can't 'join in', then why not? It's what I feel most comfortable in. If we were having a chat on a break and other people were there then no, it would be rude.

wow. can't believe they'd bother with a stupid rule. I have learnt a bit of polish from a colleague. not enough to join in with her conversations yet !

As a teenager I worked in a castle in Ireland as waiting staff. Lots of the staff were from Poland and regularly spoke to eachother in Polish whilst other non Polish speaking staff were present which I found very rude.

One day some of the staff took it upon themselves to speak only Irish to each other in front of the Polish staff. The Polish staff kicked right off and went to management saying that they found it very rude etc. Big argument followed which led to management telling everyone we were only allowed to speak English. Seemed fair enough to me at the time.

As a fluent Welsh speaker who also works with other fluent Welsh speakers and non Welsh speakers, we all speak English during work and on breaks. It's unfair to those who can't understand us, and they may feel left out or even worse possibly that they were being spoken about.

I personally wouldn't like it so I make the effort not to do so to others.

I live in Malaysia and work in an international company, the required common language in the office is English. Should I have to have learned fluent Bahasa Malayu to live and work in Malaysia? You could argue yes, and it's rude not to. However in a company like mine it would result in a substantial proportion of the workforce trying to become fluent in a totally new language every 4 years. Not something everyone could master, including those highly skilled in other areas.
On the other hand all sorts of other languages are spoken in the office. It's more about courteous behaviour than language in my opinion. If two colleagues are having a technical discussion in their own language and it turns to a topic I might have input on they will naturally switch. If it sounds like something I may have an interest in (lots of technical words are in English so I pick them up) and they haven't switched I'll move towards them, look at them, give off general 'wanting to join in' signals and they switch. If all else fails, 'excuse me' usually does it!
Equally if I join friends for a coffee who are chatting in their native language as soon as I approach they switch.
Talking over the heads of patients, about people in meetings or excluding them on breaks is simply rudeness.
I feel dreadful that I know so little Bahasa when living here but most peoples English here is so fluent we default to that. I had lessons for months but made very little progress.

It's not a situation I come across tbh but I would find it offensive if people were carrying on a conversation in my presence that I was excluded from and I would never dream of doing that to others

I think this is very reasonable and just good manners

And to people saying it is ok in break time but not if it is being used to bully/include/exclude - how do you enforce that rule?

Same as you enforce any other behaviour. Call people out on it if they are doing it during working time. Encouraging a trusting work environment so people can come and raise issues like,"I feel they are talking behind my back," or whatever, make people aware of how some unthinking behaviours may be perceived by others. If it's not possible to enforce a rule, it probably shouldn't be a rule.

I think it depends. If people are grouped around their lunch table at work and speak another language for a bit, I don't think that's an issue.

However, in some cases use of the non-lingua franca in working situationssuch as during a meetingis at best rude/exclusionary and at worst a way of deliberately shutting people out. Most companies in most countries have a "common/shared" language, and there tend to be rules about sticking to it in obviously shared spaces.

The thing about Welsh is a bit daft, sorry. Yes, I know Welsh is, strictly speaking, an official language of the UK but the vast majority of non-Welsh people don't speak it (and I think a slight majority of Welsh don't speak it either), so in practice it is not a lingua franca in the same way that English is.