...to be scared by the idea that drinking alcohol in pregnancy be criminalised?

[Nessalina]

Whilst the idea of drinking enough in pregnancy to harm the unborn baby is abhorrent to me, the thought that the rights of a foetus be put ahead of the the rights of the mother scare me. Surely it's a slippery slope and I don't like where it could lead... But then should there be consequences for women that don't care for themselves in pregnancy?

If you haven't seen the story, the Independent article is here:
'Council seeks compensation for a six-year-old girl with 'growth retardation' caused by her mother's alcohol consumption during pregnancy'

(Haven't seen a thread about this, apologies if I'm duplicating!)

good point sqeezy,was just saying when you're pregnant its not just your body

I don't think that mothers should be criminalised for their choices during pregnancy. Not so sure that means a child should never have the right to apply for compensation though.

thing is, the child should not need to claim compensation. at least not in a country like uk with a good social network and (generally) very good healthcare.

The reality is that compensation can make a huge difference to the lives of disabled people. Until that changes, I think the idea that it should not be sought for this child out of some kind of solidarity is wrong.

It makes no sense. Abortion is illegal in this country up to 24 weeks. Therefore a foetus is not a person and has no rights until 24 weeks. Therefore you can only criminalise acts that take place after 24 weeks.

My vague knowledge of FAS is that most of the damage takes place in early pregnancy.

Or rather " Abortion is legal in the country"

This is a very important women's rights issue. We have the right to parachute in pregnancy, down Scotch, smoke, ski or anything else we like. We are allowed by law to kill o ur child if it is disabled at any time up to birth and up to the earlier limit if it is not disabled and we have to fight very hard to keep these rights our our bodies even if most of us would never knowingly damage a baby before birth.

Never the mind the fact this country already has a compensation culture which has gone far too far, the issue of principle is what matter here - my body, my decision even if I choose to maim my unborn child. Doctors can advise and if you wish you can ignore them. That is very very important to women.

Of course the rights of the foetus have to come first. The baby has no choice but to take the nutrition it's mother gives it. We don't need alcohol. I don't think women should be locked up but maybe making it against the law would send the message home stronger, if you drink then your baby drinks!

maybe making it against the law would send the message home stronger It absolutely wouldn't. Criminalising drug and alcohol use does not work. Why would it magically work in pregnancy?

I was at a conference recently with Herway Home, who work with mothers who use. They work on harm reduction, taking away every other cause of harm; abuse; lack of care; nutrition; housing. They will work with the mother on reducing or abstaining if she chooses that. It works. They end up with healthier babies and healthier mothers.

I mean that socially it becomes less acceptable, as has smoking during pregnancy.

No matter what the facts of the case are or how badly I may think that the mother behaved, I think that it is terrifying that they could determine that a foetus is a person and therefore has rights equal to or on a par to those of the mother ... that train of legal thought would be very dangerous indeed.

I didn't know I was pregnant with DS1 til I was 22 weeks. I was stuck in a viciously abusive relationship with his father, and I drank to escape. I probably knocked back close to a litre of vodka a day, sometimes more. When blood test results revealed I was pregnant, the sheer hell of realising what I may have done to my child was something I never, ever want to relive. The guilt still needles at me now.

I'm very lucky. DS was born beautiful, perfect in every way, a healthy weight and now, at nearly 4, is as bright as a button. But I was LUCKY. Had I known I was pregnant, no WAY would I have carried on drinking as I did. I'd have got my ass in gear and left his useless ass of a 'father' long before I did.

That this case has even made it as far as court is wrong on so many levels.

1. If they win, it establishes a legal precedent that the foetus has rights (at the moment it is not a person legally speaking) and that these rights outweigh those of the mother. I find this horrifying. It's a step towards the "pregnant women aren't people, they're incubators on legs" attitude of countries like Nicaragua (where women do die from ectopic pregnancies because doctors are afraid to operate in case they're prosecuted for carrying out abortions).

2. It is not evidence-based. FAS is hard to prove unequivocally, and it's incredibly difficult to establish what level of drinking, and when in gestation, is damaging. One thing that is clear is that the "you mustn't drink at all" advice is purse scaremongering and has no statistically robust evidence behind it.

3. Criminalising this behaviour will actually make it harder to offer support and substance reduction programmes because women suffering from addiction will be frightened to admit to it.

4. Even if you are rabidly anti abortion, you can't apply laws retrospectively. Even if (and I sincerely hope this doesn't happen) a law were to be brought in tomorrow criminalising drinking in pregnancy, it would remain the case that at the time of this particular pregnancy, the woman was not engaging in a criminal act. So how the hell can you apply for criminal compensation?

What are the general statistics on women drinking in pregnancy? Is it on the incline or decline?