AIBU to think this is an act of child cruelty?

[RedPoppyRed]

It is a daily fail link and I will say WARNING it is a distressing picture.

For those who don't want to see it the picture it is of a religious ceremony where by a small child of about 18 months is having his forehead cut open as an act of commemoration. He looks terrified.

AIBU to believe that respect and homage could have been shown by using paint instead of inflicting injury on a child?

There is in my mind no religion that promotes the harming of children (or anyone else for that matter) and this barbaric practice should be stopped.

WARNING GRAPHIC PICTURE

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I don't know of any religion which tells its followers to hand children over to be abused.

And circumcision is practiced by many non religious people. Take America for example.

gets salt and vinegar for the chip on your shoulder

See told you I was crap at reading tone/sarcasm in posts

I know what you mean regarding the article itself and the reason they have chosen to publish it. I did try to leave out the religion and focus on the act itself in my posts.

Just to be clear I didn't click on the link for obvious reasons.

I clicked it and yes it’s horrific and barbaric. But of course it’s not just Islam, any religion seems to be an excuse to do a lot of vile, violent things.

Red I too am being totally genuine, I tend to over use exclamation points (!!) I meant sincerely that you are not Muslim bashing and I am sure you would never do so. The Daily Fail on the other hand...!

The Daily fail is all kinds of bad. However this is a practice that goes on and I am currently searching the internet to see if I can find anything that apposes it that I can sign up to or support in some way.

I am aware of similar barbaric rituals within all religions and although I respect the choices of adults I don't believe that children should be harmed or abused in anyway in the name of faith.

for Nancy

Cutting children, slicing bits off them, sticking needles through them - all done for adult pleasure not for the child's benefit.

It's certainly a practice among a minority of Shia Muslims as part of the Muharram festival to commemorate the death of Mohammed's grandsons, but I wouldn't say it was an 'Indian' practice. It's certainly also done elsewhere - the Irish travel writer Dervla Murphy describes watching adult men flagellate themselves and cut their scalps in Kashmir/Pakistan in the 70s. Don't know about elsewhere. I didn't know children were ever hurt, though, which is horrifying.

But I think it's not accurate to see it as anything very widespread within mainstream Islam, any more than those people who choose to be crucified on Good Friday in the Philippines as an act of piety are typical of Catholics.

circumcision is practiced by many non religious people indeed it is and it's a legacy of the religion in which god said you must cut a bit off of every boy. People got so used to it they no longer realise they are committing a vile act of abuse. The people cutting the child's head don't realise they are doing something disgusting either. There's no real difference.

I don't blame you for wanting to defend it. Though saying 'they do it too' is not the best argument in the world.

As for my other comment I recommend reading about the Christian churches in all countries, but specifically Ireland. Don't start looking at 7yo brides though because that's different and even thinking about that is Islamaphobia.

any more than those people who choose to be crucified on Good Friday in the Philippines as an act of piety are typical of Catholics.

That's right. After all if they hadn't been taught that god existed and was crucified and wanted them to show their faith they would still have done the same thing,

It's a Sunni Muslim thing - day of Ashura. And it's all over the world, not just India, but the blood/cutting part is not practised everywhere. It's obviously something that creates some controversy among those who have that religion. Some countries have made the cutting illegal. According to Wiki some areas now organise a blood donation drive in conjunction with the Red Cross as an alternative.

But yes, cutting yourself and bleeding does seem to be a big part of this for some people. I don't pretend to understand that, I'm an atheist, but to be honest it's no weirder to me/harder to understand than most other religious stuff. It's their belief. They do it because they have strong faith reasons for doing so.

I must be weird but to be honest I don't see much harm in a little nick on a kid's head, not in context of all sorts of religious practices that I think are a damn site more harmful, just not as spectacular visually. Head cuts only need to be tiny and bleed like mad for ages. So I think it looks a lot worse than it is. And a little nick in the skin with something sharp isn't really going to hurt much - ever cut your finger on a knife and not felt it? Not known it's happened until you see blood? I know I have. I don't think it's mutilation as there's no lasting damage/scars/disfigurement/change of function/negative effect.

o that if it's your religion. Cut bits off their genitals, cut their faces, beat the devils out of them or hand them to the priest to be raped. It's all part of god's plan. Blessed be the name of the lord.o that if it's your religion. Cut bits off their genitals, cut their faces, beat the devils out of them or hand them to the priest to be raped. It's all part of god's plan. Blessed be the name of the lord

This ^^. I hate religion because of it. Women and children at the fucking mercy of man with an agenda.

Why that double up I don't know?!

In some cultures facial and bodily scarification is carried out as decoration so you do wonder why the Daily Mail presents it in the way it does .

Look at the different tone of this article from the same paper.
www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2561949/Ethiopian-Sudanese-tribes-intricate-raised-patterns-created-using-THORNS.html

My husband is a Sunni Muslim (not Shi'ite). I've just shown him the picture and he (like me) is horrified. If adults want to do these things on themselves, fair enough. But to cut a child is horrific.
I've watched a circumcision in Tunisia on a 2yr old boy (no anaesthesia) in a mosque and the child was screaming in pain and terror. My dh' dsis were all FGM'd at age 11 or so. Screams he'll never forget. I'm mystified as to how any loving parent can be so brainwashed to permit such abuse (and of course it's abuse) on their child.

The raised patterns on faces is very common in Nigeria, Mali and IC, among the Senoufou, Yoruba, Malinke etc . I've seen it all over W AFrica. Very disfiguring. They also sometimes break children's second teeth to make them pointed.
I agree religion has a lot to answer for. I'm a Christian, but much evil has been done in the name of that as well. But God Himself doesn't want any of this I'm sure. It's men who invent dreadful religious practices. Sadistic.

I must be weird but to be honest I don't see much harm in a little nick on a kid's head, not in context of all sorts of religious practices that I think are a damn site more harmful, just not as spectacular visually

Sorry Kent but if I was say with my 18 month old child in front of you and I picked up a dirty great kitchen knife and cut his head while he screamed at me in terror you would be ok with that as long as I said it was religious? Or would you in fact be on the phone to the police because I have just attacked my child with a knife?

I hope it would be the latter

Don't know about anti-muslim. I would said right off that this would be one of the Indian religions rather than Islamic. Muslims (and Jews) prefer to cut chunks of flesh from the other end.
Anyway it's perfectly fine to do that if it's your religion. Cut bits off their genitals, cut their faces, beat the devils out of them or hand them to the priest to be raped. It's all part of god's plan. Blessed be the name of the lord.

Yeah and wreck countries in religion-related wars, don't forget that! Not to mention having people spend their life frightened of going to Hell etc

I've never heard of this before and I listen to radio 4 a lot (resulting in oodles of niche general knowledge). This must be a non mainstream religious practice and frowned upon by most reasonable people, even ones of that faith.

Loving the logic fireside

PoppyRed - yes of course I don't agree that people should cut their children's heads. But I also think we have to look at cultural context. They are doing it in a belief that it benefits the child spiritually, not harming them. And the actual physical harm is minimal compared to, say, FGM.

I just think there's far more damaging religious and cultural practices that do cause lasting harm, and those are the things that outrage me.

Let's hope it's niche, like self-flagellation (sp?)

Bloodletting as religious practice is medieval.

A nick on a kids head is far less damaging than cutting off part of their penis...

I think both practices are wrong kent

Any religion that calls upon its followers to inflict harm on another is WRONG.

To attempt to justify this act by stating it causes no lasting harm, how do you know?

This child cannot defend himself. He has no choice. He just knows that the man he loves (holding him is I assume his father) is allowing another to cut him with a knife causing pain and terror. This is abuse and cruelty.

It's useless to 'rank' physical mutilations and cuttings in order of acceptability really. They all cause pain and suffering, and achieve no benefit to the child at all. Any circumcision deemed necessary in the West is (usually) undertaken with anaesthesia.
These barbaric practices are all born of ignorance. Problems arise here too when people with different cultures come to the UK and expect to be allowed to mutilate their children with impunity.

One good thing though, my dh says that times are changing in his home country and modern young people have a much more enlightened outlook. They're starting to refuse to do cruel things to their babies in the name of religion. And they're better educated so can appreciate the need for change.
Let's hope that trend continues.