to ask if this is a sign of autism in toddlers?

[CloudiaPickle]

2.5 yo DD has three words only. I have self-referred to SALT as she also had then lost words. I know losing words can be indicative of autism but an extended family member told me today that something else speech related is a 'strong indicator' but ive never heard of it before so wanted to check here.

Rather than name objects, dd will describe them - I.e. She has signs/sounds (that don't sound remotely like the actual word) for colours and sizes or will make the noise. So for a car she'll say the colour or make an engine noise, for a tree/grass/grapes/peas etc she'll sign green butget ffrustrated if you don't know which of the above she means. She'snnever named an object, she makes animal noises but they're all pretty much the same yet she expects me to know the difference. She doesn't mimic speech at all and says words completely incomprehensibly - for example: red is lut, ear is tin etc.

Does anyone know if these could be signs of autism?

The checklist applies to what she did at 18 months

For one she is not responding to others although hearing is fine.

It warrants an assessment not random tales of relatives who didnt speak until 3 and are now Einstein 2nd.

Op I wish you all the best and only want whats right for your daughter. PM me anytime

Agree that you'd be better posting in SN rather than AIBU.

What is her play like? How does she interact with other children? Does she seek them out? Is she passive? Does she initiate contact with others? What toys does she play with?

Speech is just one of the ASD triad of impairments.

There's a fairly high chance that Einstein did have a form of autism. So the OP' s child may be both a mini Einstein and autistic.

Not all children are a bit autistic at two, that's ridiculous.

Definitely do the M-CHAT test online, it can give you a good indication of what needs further investigation.

It does need pushing if words have been lost, my youngest suffered a massive regression at 23 months and didn't make a single verbal sound for over a year after that. Some speech disorders and delays can mimic autism but if you have other concerns then that warrants a full assessment.

Do NOT wait, the waiting lists can be incredibly long, and if assessments are needed then the sooner that happens the better.

Waiting until 3 is not good enough. If your HV won't refer, then you need to push your GP to do so.

Does she socialise? Have any sensory issues? Will she point and reference to objects without prompting?

Hearing is always ruled out first so it's great that you've already had this done. I hope you can get the answers you need soon

If you have concerns you need to be following them up now not waiting - if your dd needs additional help the sooner she gets it the better. I raised concers at the 2 year check and my HV started the process, by the time he was 2 1/2 he had a diagnosis of developmental delay and also a working diagnosis of ASD which was confirmed when he was 3.

Please do the M Chat and push for a follow up if you have concerns.

What complete nonsense saying that 2 years old is too young to diagnose Autism and that 2 year olds are a bit Autistic.
Agree with others, chat to the people on the SN board.
My DD was diagnosed at 2 and many other children I know also. If you are worried then push your GP or HV for a referral, if there is nothing wrong then great, if there is then the sooner the help the better.

Too young to diagnose autism as they are all a bit autistic around 2.
That's really offensive, as well as being complete rubbish.

I think maybe that what purple was trying to say, is that many signs that would be associated with autism in older children, can be usual developmental stages in toddlers. At least I hope that's what they meant!

For example, someone mentioned earlier about their ASD child struggling with transitions and being able to articulate their needs. Other children with ASD are anxious in new situations.

My DD also struggles with transitions, if you end an activity abruptly that will guarantee a tantrum. She can't articulate her needs very well, she has a whiny voice that lets me know something isn't right but then it's guesswork as to what the problem is (at least she lets me know when I have hit upon it). She is also very anxious in new situations, for example she was afraid of the pumpkin we carved for hallowe'en to the point where she was repeating 'scary pumpkin' for hours after we had got rid of it.

I am pretty sure my DD is neuro typical. She is only 2, and therefore the above behaviours fall into the 'normal' or average range. If she was still doing them at 5 or 6, then it indicates further investigation is needed.

However there are some things that don't happen with typical development, so if they happen at all it indicates further investigation. And other things that 'should' happen that don't that can indicate further investigation needed. So it isn't always the case that ASD can't be diagnosed in toddlers, just that can be a little more difficult than with older children where the differences are much more obvious.

OP I'd suggest as other sensible posters have said, repost on the SN boards. Anecdotes won't help you. It's amazing how many people I've read about on MN who were apparently non-verbal till 3 and now have PhDs.

Speech development alone is not a reliable indicator either way. If you're concerned about more than speech, I'd bypass the HV (many of whom know next to nothing about signs of autism other than the screamingly obvious) and go to GP asking for a referral to a developmental paed. The issue about speech wrt autism is more about communication, rather than speech (or language).

trendspotter you asked about a friend's dc up thread - why did you want to know? Is your friend concerned?

My child has asd. He didn't have many/any words before the age of 2. Once he started talking though he came out with sentences very quickly, it was almost as though he was saving up all his language until the time was right!
He is now highly literate and language is one of his 'things' that he excels with.

By age 3 I was getting comments about autism from family members (interspersed with others telling me he was just a 'normal' boy)and he was eventually diagnosed a few years later.
As mentioned above difficulty with transitions and meltdowns over strange things (usually sensory related) were 'obvious' signs that I didn't appreciate at the time but now understand. Likewise difficulty with independent/imaginary play.

Autism is a spectrum, my child has autism but presents very differently to the other children I know with autism, who in turn all have their own presentation.

I don't have personal experience with language regression but hopefully things will improve with speech therapy.

Just a comment on the PhD thing, I have one and am almost certainly on the spectum, in my field I would estimate that 70-90% of my PhD-bearing colleagues would be on the spectrum too! Lots of misconceptions about autism it seems

So does she make the same sound consistently for a word she doesn't know? possibly your dd is having difficulty with speech sound production, which can be separate from autism. Agree with other posters about seeing gp and pursuing your concerns now, as waiting lists can often be a year or more

My DS had hardly any words till he was 3. You literally can't shut him up now - oh, but he still has autism.

Speech delay is only one sign of autism OP. If you are worried, do the MCHAT as Fanjo said, and keep pushing for further referrals and investigation.

The other thing that I wish someone had told me is: if you suspect your child has autism, then start treating them as if they have autism. You don't have to wait for a diagnosis to start using the techniques and interventions that will help their communication skills develop. And if they don't have autism, you've still helped their communication skills, so it's a win-win.

You'll get lots of support on the SN boards if you want to ask specific questions, also google Hanen which is a great course for communication help.

Also have a think about whether your dd understands what you are saying, it might help if you keep your language simple. A Salt assessment should check receptive language btw

Yes, v good point by Wilson. The parents guide to speech and language problems.by Debbie feit is generally q.useful too

There is a massive difference between my niece and nephew who are 2 and neurotypical and my asd boy... Shared communication as fanjo said is v important- i noticed this was hugely evident with them last week and not at all with my DS

She sounds a lot like my dd at that age. I would push and push for a referral to a paediatrician to get her checked out. My dd wasn't diagnosed with Autism until she was 8 (almost 9) and it would have been a lot easier if she'd been diagnosed earlier. When she was a toddler the HV said she'd grow out of it.

Oh yes like LonnyVonnyWilsonFrickett about her DS, my dd barely spoke at all until she wa 3 -3.5. She never shuts up now (she's 11) but she still has ASD.

Can I just reassure any parents on here who are now panicking about mixing up of pronouns. This is also a normal stage in speech development and will be exhibited by many children. My niece and my dd are the same age. Both mixed pronouns. One is autistic, one isn't. The difference was that for one of them it was just a phase and with comprehension it resolved. The other still mixes pronouns aged 7. If you think about it, pronouns are very confusing for little children. How do you explain that yes when I say 'you' I do mean 'you' but when you say 'you' it means something else entirely. You are not you. We all are you. We are all also I. And me. It's like lining things up in order of size. Lots of children like to line things up or group them. It's also sometimes a sign of autism.

Autism has many markers and no two children on the spectrum will present the same. It's all about when and how and why and how long. A parent's concerns is a good starting point for investigation and a specialist should be consulted when some of these signs are present.

OP, have you had a look at the M CHAT online?

DD was a bit like that (although not quite as late as 2.5) and is deaf it seemed to take her a long time to realise that things had names that could be represented by language (and it took her even longer probably until nearly 3 to realise that people had individual names rather than just class designators). I'm not suggesting that your DD is deaf as you've said that her hearing has been checked just that while this isn't normal for 2.5 it can be a symptom of other things besides autism. If you're actually seeing a SALT they should have a good idea of the various possibilities.

There's very little evidence that Einstein didn't speak until 4, by the way, and references in family letters seem to suggest that while he didn't talk much he was constructing perfectly age-appropriate phrases at two or two and a half.

My DS was diagnosed with ASD at 18 months, so not true to say it's too early for a diagnosis, Purple!

OP - You are right about a loss of words (or any kind of regression) being a red flag for autism. Haven't heard of describing things by colour, etc., being a sign though? The only thing it might be suggestive of is a lack of "theory of mind", which is a definite symptom of autism. It basically means not knowing that you think differently to them. For example, if your child were to say, "want it" without telling you (or trying to tell you) what "it" was, that would be suggestive of a lack of theory of mind, which would be another definite red flag.

But generally, I wouldn't get too worried about language at this age - there are generally much more reliably clues. Does she respond when you call her name? Point to things? Bring you toys to show you? Understand simple commands? How is her eye contact?

Talk to her with your eyes closed. Does she notice ?

Thanks for your replies.

I did the M-CHAT a few months ago which identified she could be displaying signs of ASD.

She flaps with excitement/frustration. She panics at the thought of anyone but me, dh and her siblings touching her - she is usually very risk aware/averse but almost ran into the road when a family member approached her as if they might pick her up. She despises change in routine. She orders and collects things obsessively. She pinches and scratches herself to the point of bleeding when in new situations/over stimulated but then seems confused about how it happened. She is terrified of things approaching her - I.e. The direction of traffic/Hoover but fine if they're going in the opposite direction.

She doesn't seem to see other people unless they're encroaching on her personal space or being loud. She shows no interest in playing with other children her own age but will play with her siblings to an extent. Strong smells make her gag and cry.