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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To wonder why all landlords seem to be such shysters!

49 replies

Jewels234 · 31/10/2014 08:52

Have rented for 10 years, 5 of them in London. Moved into a new apartment yesterday, the shower doesn't work. Landlord tells me it's my problem to deal with, and only when I quote the Landlord and Tenants Act does he change his mind. In addition, we had a clause added into the contract to have something put in the house that the landlord has conveniently 'forgotten' about and is now refusing to do.

Why do landlords do this?! It's a legal requirement. What part of the landlord thought they could get away with that behaviour without a fight?!

Not really an AIBU, but a question to you landlords about why you behave so badly?

OP posts:
Legionofboom · 31/10/2014 09:30

I think you have been unlucky. I have lived in a lot of rented properties of different standards, probably about 15 or so. 3 of them were in London.

Most of our landlords were great. The ones that weren't were the buy to let landlords who thought that having a rental property would be a nice little earner and hadn't properly factored in the cost of replacing the boiler, repairing the shower etc and could not afford the repairs when something went wrong.

By far the worse landlord was a London based property company who had a large portfolio of properties. They cut corners all the time and bodged repairs to keep costs down which caused a list of problems that never got resolved so we moved out.

I agree that it is equally true that many tenants are shits. I was always amazed at how surprised out landlords were that we left places in a good state.

JamNanBoo · 31/10/2014 09:34

We have had two sets of LLs during the years I have lived in this house. They are the meanest, shittiest, revolting people I have ever met. I know of plenty of other shit landlords too who don't do any work on their properties.

SunnaStrangeInTheNeighbourhood · 31/10/2014 09:40

We're lovely landlords and have had 3 sets of lovely tenants. One is waiting for the current tenants to vacate so he can come back.

YABVU.

quesadillas · 31/10/2014 09:40

I'm a landlord. For several years I was flexible and generous with my tenants, taking rents below what I could get as I know what renting in London is like. It's difficult. Then I got tenants who moved pets in without my knowledge, were late paying rent and left the place in a right message. So in the same way as some are suspicious of all landlords, I'm now suspicious of all potential tenants.

Jewels234 · 31/10/2014 09:40

This particular landlord is one with a large portfolio of properties in London.

Ratemylandlord/tenant.com?

Also agree that estate agents are horrendous. Our one who just us in this apartment gave us a contract to sign just 24 hours before we moved in, and told me I was being ridiculous for worrying about it. Ahhhh!

OP posts:
quesadillas · 31/10/2014 09:41

"left the place in a right mess" is what my post should have said.....

TeamScotland · 31/10/2014 09:42

I'm not a landlord currently but have been in the past. My first tenant stayed in my property for 3 or 4 years. He was such a good tenant that I didn't increase his rent in that time even though the market rates had gone up. I can't remember any repairs I organised while he was there, but I'm sure there were some.

By the time I rented my second property many new rules had been brought in, which I adhered to. One tenant set the kitchen on fire after some ambitious steak cooking. I paid for the repairs and the money was deducted from their deposit when they left. This was mutually agreed as they were buying a property a couple of months later and simply didn't have the cash (not enough for an insurance claim, thankfully).

Electric and gas certificates and servicing were done by a major maintenance company and I've replaced a few fridges and washing machines in my time.

I've always had good tenants and think I've been a reasonable LL.

floraldora · 31/10/2014 09:57

I have only rented once, for a year, and my landlord was a total and utter shit. There were several problems with the house during the year I was there, including one with the toilet, and another with the kitchen sink. Each time I reported problems to the agents they told me that Mr X had told them that he didn't want to spend any money on the property. Oh, and there was supposed to be a cooker in the house and it had mysteriously vanished when I moved in. The landlord's suggestion to the letting agent was "She should buy one of her own". Great!

I have three friends that currently rent and each of them has ongoing problems with their house that their landlords are crap at sorting out. There have been lots of bodge jobs, and lots of fobbing off.

HayDayQueen · 31/10/2014 09:58

I've never had BAD landlords, just some stupid ones!

Like the over ambitious pair who were leveraged to the hilt and thought a 10% rent increase every year was acceptable and were astounded that i thought that,no, actually moving was the better option for me.

Or the landlord who moved to Australia. And couldn't get her head around dealing with her property properly, dithering between renting and selling.

Or the numpty who rented his house out while on a work contact abroad and was so attached to his house that he spent more money repairing an old cooker than it would have cost to buy a brand new one, leaving us without a cooker for months while the parts were sources.

And the list goes on.

There should be a compulsory course for landlords.....

Legionofboom · 31/10/2014 10:07

I do sympathise with you OP.

It is horrible when you have committed to moving somewhere, paid the ridiculous deposit etc and things do not work or are not as you had agreed.

It can make you feel quite trapped and powerless against people who seem to know how to manipulate rules or who are experts at stalling tactics. We were paying stupid London rents with no hot water or heating for what ended up being weeks in Jan/Feb. The stupid property company sent engineer after engineer to try to fix the problem. It needed a new boiler but they wouldn't pay to replace it. But they kept trying to do something we couldn't withhold rent and fix it ourselves either.

I hope it gets sorted for you soon.

whois · 31/10/2014 10:13

I've been in 4 different rental properties. Two excellent LL. One totally fine LL.

One useless mad old bat but the warning signs were there before we moved in, so I have learnt from that mistake.

adsy · 31/10/2014 10:14

jewels I'm a LL and recently spent £7000 on a new kitchen which the new tenant helped choose 'cos she said she was planning to stay at least 5 years.
I also put in new handrails all over the place 'cos she said she'd like them and new carpets.
She now announces she wants to leave after her first 6 months rent as she is disappointed I didn't include a new dishwasher in the kitchen..
In your learned opinion who is the shyster here?
I take great exception to the attitude from a lot of mnetters that all LL's are grabbing bastards. Most of us just break even you know.
So rude.

SacreBlue · 31/10/2014 10:22

I've rented for over 20yrs and the majority of my LLs have been lovely. Only two have been horrible.

I think it's more down to the fact that some people are just disgusting human beings no matter what.

For every horrible LL story there is a horrible renter story.

Maybe we should have a tripadvisor style website for LL & renters not that you can believe everything on TA

LurkingHusband · 31/10/2014 10:31

Funny that Landlords require references, when really it's tenants (who, after all are paying) should be able to get landlord references ...

Zilverblue · 31/10/2014 10:33

I had no idea that DH and I were "shysters". We pay around £600 a year for the right to rent out our property and an annual inspection, it has more fire safety measures than the average office or hotel, it has log books for checks and other safety measures to such an extent that it actually impinges on our tenant's lives, our lease is monitored by the local authority and if we want to take money off our tenants for damage they cause, we no longer have access to court if a dispute ensues.

This month alone, DH has spent two weekends at the property and 3 evenings after work putting in a new shower because the tenants pulled the last one off the wall and broke it, fixing a tap that ditto they broke, putting new bags in the vacuum cleaners and fixing the front door lock and security entrance system, plus taken a day off work to meet gas safety engineers because the overflow valve for the central heating system had mysteriously jammed itself on. One of the other evenings he came round it was to let back in a tenant who had locked himself out. He also works full time.

We are also just shelling out nearly £2000 on roof repairs, which will make it around £5,650 this year on maintenance anyway - our local authority carries out communal repairs and gives us little choice as to how much they will cost or whether or not they are really necessary. We did save thousands by sanding down and repainting the windows framework ourselves though, and probably did at least as good, if not better, a job of it.

After paying the mortgage, which is massive, in some years we have made a profit, but not for the last two years. Doesn't matter - its our pension and so we look after that property. If we actually paid an accountant to do our tax returns, we would be running at a larger loss still, but we do them ourselves too. But we do pay 40% tax on whatever profit we have left after all that.

But my goodness, do our tenants pay for all this. The rent is massive. There is absolutely no way on earth we could charge them less as actually having the thing on the market to that standard is so expensive. But happily its an expensive city and we have plenty of willing tenants wanting to live there and to pay that much. We used to roll along quite happily before all these standards came into play, the only difference they have made is that we have had to stop spending our money on decoration and putting in secondary glazing and replacing carpets and instead spend it on statutory notices and the new inventions that the local authority come up with every year - the latest wheeze being locks which cannot be locked from the inside with a key - which, mysteriously, could only be satisfactorally supplied by one company in the whole of the country, as that was the only one the local authority had authorised...

Despite the massive rent, if my tenants constantly phoned me up and took it upon themselves to "remind me" what my responsibilities were, or trot out that line that they were my customer - its an exchange of goods, not services (I am not your cleaner/concierge/bum wiper) - then I would evict them under one of the statutory listed grounds. I'd be very polite about it, but dealing with that sort of character, in any field of work, is something to be avoided. In fact, I did evict one tenant who sent me a series of increasingly ranty emails about a property that had absolutely nothing wrong with it, culminating in one sent on Christmas Eve informing me that she would be out of the property the next day and "I could fix the dripping tap that she had complained about hundreds of times then". Unless of course they were actually paying for a serviced let, in which case they would be paying such a massive rent that it and their contract would entitle them to instant service.

If we need a Trip Advisor for landlords, we really need one for tenants too. The work I put in at the end of tenancies in encouraging tenants to get damage they have caused themselves fixed so I don't have to take it off their deposits and end up in a dispute with them would stand me in good stead for a job on the UN Security Council.

Sorry, did I digress? I really do object to being termed a "shyster", and if I think about it when I am spending my free time basically wiping someone else's bottom or running around after them fixing damage they have caused, it tends to dwell in my mind...

orangeisthenewpink · 31/10/2014 10:46

Zilver of course a tenant is a customer! What a strange view you have!

LuckyLuckyMe · 31/10/2014 10:48

I've been a tenant, a landlord and a letting and management agent so I must be the most despicable person on the planet Halloween Grin

I've dealt with shit landlords, shit tenants and shit letting agents but I agree with a PP the majority are good. There are always a few shit people regardless of their occupation, situation etc.

I've only come across a handful of shit tenants and landlords in the 20 or so years I've been dealing with property. Most of them are fine.

I have noticed that the worst landlords are the ones in negative equity, buy to let and can't afford repairs or ones that have inherited a property with siblings or family members and for whatever reason can't sell the property but can't afford to maintain it.

The worst kind of tenants are the ones who rent a crap property, are told that the reason the rent is half the market value is because the landlord can't afford repairs. They move in and immediately complain about cosmetic things.

It was an older property, owner is in a home, landlords are owners DC who can't afford to maintain the house, can't sell the house but need some income from it to pay towards the care home. We don't manage this house any more. Too stressful.

cheerupandhaveaglassofwine · 31/10/2014 10:51

As a landlord by accident from needing to move and not being able to sell so choose renting old house out I look at things this way

I can't really afford 2 mortgages unless the rent is paid on time

If this is kept upto date there is a little spare around for repairs as and when needed and they are done promptly as it is my property and I want to keep it in good condition

If the tenant doesn't pay on time or falls behind this has a knock on effect as I may not actually be able to afford repairs

Everyone assumes all landlords are loaded as they have property to rent when this is often not the case and some are just trying to find a way to get by and make the best of the position they are in, I now have a good tenant paying just under market value for the property but the rent is on time every month and they look after things

If they ring with a problem I either just give them the plumbers or whoevers number and say get it sorted and ask them to bill me or I go straight round to sort things if it is a repair I can do myself

Before them the tenants were 2k behind in rent and I was struggling to pay the mortgage, and then they caused around 10k of damage which I luckily had insurance cover on the get fixed when we finally managed to get them evicted

Just as many bad tenants as bad landlords, shame there is no matching service for good tenants and good landlords and leave all the crap to each other

Zilverblue · 31/10/2014 10:52

orange Zilver of course a tenant is a customer! What a strange view you have!

I do not provide serviced lets. I do not run a hotel. I didn't use the word customer - you did. Its an odd term to use, and I can't see the point of your suddenly bringing it up, but it still doesn't imply an exchange of services, as opposed to goods. Albeit the goods in a contract of let are bricks and mortar and associated elements, not an exchange of labour.

The law is quite clear that the contract of let is an exchange of goods, not services. A contract of services requires one person to be working for another in an employment type relationship. I am not employed by my tenants - I provide them with a facility. I do not provide them with services beyond that which by necessity arises out of that facility ie the basics that you would expect.

I provide the facility. The tenants live in it. Beyond providing the basics of what is necessary for them to do so, it is up to them.

I suspect the expectation of being provided with "services" is what causes some mumsnetters such angst...they do actually expect almost a concierge service at all times of day and night, like you would get in a hotel or in a serviced let.

Totally separate from the OP's issue over the shower. I have no idea what is specifically going on there and cannot comment meaningfully. It seems odd to let a property with a broken shower. Definitely broken and not just switched off?

TinyTear · 31/10/2014 10:58

Ah yes I had tenants saying the oven didn't work. this oven needs to have the clock set to work...

the tenants turned the oven off in the wall switch everynight and didn't set the clock up every morning, so of course the oven didn't work...

now they know they do not need to switch it off on the wall...

Suzannewithaplan · 31/10/2014 10:58

Ive lived in several rented places, generally landlords have been fine

SacreBlue · 31/10/2014 11:01

Lucky I agree on the some people are shit regardless of circumstances (renter or LL) but I have found the worst people (again LL or renters) are those that have a sense of entitlement.

I'm renting this place - you should come round and replace my lightbulbs really! to I'm renting you this place so you should pay over the odds even without a functioning bathroom again - really!

We all know people who think they deserve the world on a plate and they can be renters and LL in equal measures. It would be great if we could match up good LL with good renters so no one was being taken advantage of.

SacreBlue · 31/10/2014 11:07

X-post with cheerup Grin I know many lovely LL and renters - such a shame to not be able to match them up and leave the horrible tenants and LL to fight it out!

TeamScotland · 31/10/2014 11:18

Just a thought, the places I've rented out have been previous homes of mine rather than buy to let properties. Maybe in some cases that makes a difference in how the LL behaves with regard to repairs and maintenance?

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