Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

State selective vs. fully comprehensive

32 replies

textingdisaster · 26/10/2014 04:52

Hi

I am sure this has been done before Grin, but here goes...

Dd1 is in Year 6 so we are applying for her secondary school place. She will be going to one of the three local state comprehensives that she could have got into. We are lucky that they are all "good" and that we had that choice. The one she is going to go to is by far my preferred one of the three and her brother (ds1 now in Year 8) already goes there.

Out of dd1's 5 closest friends, only one is going to another of these 3 schools (also with a sibling already there). The others have all been doing tests to get into various further away selective state schools (and one religious one which is not an option for us). I was talking to the Mum of one of these girls and she told me that as she was her first child she wanted to do what was best for her which made me feel a bit Hmm and Blush.

The reason we haven't gone down the test route is partly because it is the last thing dd1 would have wanted and partly because of my non-competitive (unambitious and passive?) nature. I mean who wants to compete with 100s of other children / families to just not get in (is how I justified myself to myself)? Also these selective schools mostly seem to be girls' schools and I think it is nice for dd to go to the same school as ds.

It now turns out that some of dd's friends are getting places (either through things like musical aptitude or passing the test) and I am wondering if I have done the right thing.

I like lots of things about the school dd will go to. Good head, switched on friendly teachers and a good atmosphere to name a few. It is also a 20 / 25 min walk away (though ds says he has walked it in 15 and run it in 7 Grin). However the selective schools have the edge academically.

I suppose I am wondering if I am afflicting my dc with my own lack of ambition??

OP posts:
Blu · 26/10/2014 05:02

Do you actually know the selecyive schools have the edge academically rather than simy reflecting the intake?

You saw the school and were very happy with it, and the 'best' for your child felt like a good local school.

Competition sets up a feeling of pursuit and then everyone feels the goal is automatically of higher value than the alternative, but it does 't follow, really. You are impressed with your school of choice on it's own terms. Being string and clear in that choice is not a bad thing!

RC1234 · 26/10/2014 06:11

I agree with Blue. I spent hours commuting to school as a teenager but it is not necessary for yours as there is a good local school. Most people I know who went to comprehensive did just as well in the long run as those who went to the grammar (top sets of comprehensive).

littlebeps · 26/10/2014 06:26

From my experience of grammar school, the teachers don't push the students as hard. I was allowed to be completely disengaged and got Bs and Cs in my exams. If I'd have been pushed or supported even slightly then I would have been a straight A student. I also think their pastoral care is lacking (I'm 31 so realise things may have changed but my 22 yr old brother had very similar experiences more recently)

julietbat · 26/10/2014 07:25

I went to my local comp (where I did very well) and I now teach at a girls' grammar. I honestly believe the best school for your child is a personal choice and cannot be compared to the choices others make. I would be extremely happy for my daughter to go to the school I teach in (and the pastoral care there is excellent as well as the academic side) but equally if we feel it isn't the right school for her (she's only yr 2) I would be equally happy for her to go to one of the good local comps. In our case, the two grammars are actually walking distance whereas the better comp is not. But she could go to the comp with her younger brother which is also a big consideration for us.

Basically, my point is if you feel you made the right decision for your daughter chances are you did! If you'd applied for the grammar schools you could equally have made a good decision but you obv felt it wasn't a good fit for her. There are pros and cons with both types of institution but it sounds like your reasons were sound ones Smile

mummytime · 26/10/2014 07:36

I know of at least one girl who went for and got into a distant Girls Grammar. The journey was such that I'd ruled out even thinking of schools in that town. After two terms the girl couldn't cope with the travel and was transferred to a local Comp.

At times I have half-wished my DC could go to schools in a less "outstandingly" educational area, where their ability would have been recognised more. An ideal for me would have been a slightly less academic school with fabulous pupil behaviour.

Educational choices are a very emotional area, and people can feel threatened when others make different choices.

TwoInTheMourning · 26/10/2014 07:39

Perhaps you could have at least given her the choice, but it's too late now.

yellowtaxi · 26/10/2014 07:50

If you're happy with the school you chose and think it is the best choice for your dd then that is the most important thing. However, someone has to get the places so I don't think you should have assumed you stood no chance, and could maybe have had a look at the grammar and considered it. I also don't think you can generalize about the school like a pp has- just because one grammar wasn't very good pastorally doesn't mean they all aren't. Surely that depends on the individual school, whether it's a comp, grammar or private school? I went to a grammar school and it was fantastic, both academically and pastorally.

QTPie · 26/10/2014 07:50

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the poster's request.

VivaLeBeaver · 26/10/2014 08:07

Dd passed her eleven plus and goes to a comp rather than the grammar.

She enjoys it and is motivated. I think there's a lot to be said for her being in top sets in terms of her confidence. I think being at the bottom of a grammar might have stressed her.

I don't think she's been as stretched as if she'd gone to a grammar. I'm under no illusion that her gcse grades won't be as good. She's predicted b/c in maths which is her weakest subject. But her progress from sats/cats hasn't been great in some subjects. Even though she's in top sets. I think maths she's in set 2 actually out of 8 levels.

But she's happy, she's doing well. She'll pass what she needs to pass with ok grades and the subjects she enjoys more shell get better grades. I think she has more time for general life than if she'd done to the grammar. I went there and the levels of homework and stress and lack of pastoral care are as bad now from seeing friends kids snowed under as they were when I was there.

If dd had been an academic genius than the grammar would have suited her more. But she isn't. She's a bright day dreamer who has other interests out of school and has more time for those interests or just to chill out.

I think if you've seen the school, like the atmosphere and the staff then that's great. Try to make sure yourself that she doesn't coast, etc. dd will do a bit of homework in ten minutes if she can get away with it. Rather than spending the recommended 45 mins doing it at a decent level. Because that's what a lot of the other kids do and get away with.

Original poster
textingdisaster · 26/10/2014 08:40

Thanks for your thoughts. The selective schools in question are not grammar schools but high mainly religious schools with selective elements to them. They have a number of places for out of catchment/religion pupils and the competition for them is fierce (Marylebone, Greycoats etc...). The area I live in (North West London) has no girls' grammar schools and the nearest boys' grammar in Barnet is a really long commute away.

It is true that I didn't ask dd how she felt about all of this early enough (because in some ways it wasn't on my radar, I've always thought local school and that's it Confused) but did speak to her recently and she was adamant that she is going to the same school as her brother. However if I had presented them as an option a long time ago, they would have been part of our "normal".

When I say less academic, last year's a to c result including English and Maths is 64%, 11% up on the previous year (which itself was part of a 2 year dip they were worried about). Compare that to the 77% of the religious school her friend might be going to and it does make you wonder where that difference comes from.

Educational choices are a very emotional area, and people can feel threatened when others make different choices. I think this is very true!

OP posts:
Original poster
textingdisaster · 26/10/2014 08:41

high flying mainly religious schools

OP posts:
Original poster
textingdisaster · 26/10/2014 08:44

I agree with the not coasting thing viva. Thanks for all your thoughts everybody Smile.

OP posts:
Hakluyt · 26/10/2014 08:46

"However the selective schools have the edge academically."

Of course they do. They select!

Hakluyt · 26/10/2014 08:48

" I'm under no illusion that her gcse grades won't be as good."

Can I ask why you think that?

redexpat · 26/10/2014 08:48

A good school will get the best out of your child.

The things that stand out for me from your post are a good head. Really, thats not to be sniffed at. Also the fact that she can walk there. Just gives them a chance to unwind evetyday, plus will keep them in better physical shape. Also, having 2 at one school makes for easier coordination.

Mascaramascara1 · 26/10/2014 08:56

last year's a to c result including English and Maths is 64%, 11% up on the previous year (which itself was part of a 2 year dip they were worried about). Compare that to the 77% of the religious school her friend might be going to and it does make you wonder where that difference comes from

Maybe it's just me - but 77% a-c in a selective school seems pretty poor. They're taking the highest achievers after all. I would have thought it would be much higher.

Sandthorn · 26/10/2014 09:14

It seems to me you do have ambition: you want your children to go to a school that's a) local, b) good, c) with their siblings, d) with a good head. Those ambitions are fine, just as it's fine for your friends to have other expectations of the schools they and their kids choose. It's not one size fits all. Try not to be offended or judgemental.

As for the GCSE grades... Well you lowering your expectations is a self-fulfilling prophecy. If your daughter's capable of good grades in one school, she's capable if the same grades anywhere. The school can offer her French or geography or whatever, but she'll learn her work ethic and her confidence at home.

Hakluyt · 26/10/2014 09:20

"When I say less academic, last year's a to c result including English and Maths is 64%, 11% up on the previous year (which itself was part of a 2 year dip they were worried about). Compare that to the 77% of the religious school her friend might be going to and it does make you wonder where that difference comes from."

Easy. It comes from the fact that the religious school has an element of selection.

Hakluyt · 26/10/2014 09:22

Sorry- pressed too soon. A school which some people have to actively make choice to go to, rather than just being the nearest school is going to have a higher % of involved! supportive parents- so the results will b a bit better.

Cantbelievethisishappening · 26/10/2014 09:25

Check the value added... that is often a better indicator than GCSE results alone. Just because a school is selective does not mean it is better academically. IMO a selective school should be achieving 85% + in results. 77% is not particularly high. Any reasonably good non selective school would achieve 70% +. As has been mentioned by another poster these schools can often coast. I know of a selective school which scored a 3 in it's Ofsted inspection for this reason.

Hakluyt · 26/10/2014 09:26

And the % of low, middle and high attainers. Dollars to doughnuts the comprehensive has a higher % of low attainers than the faith school.

mummytime · 26/10/2014 09:27

Neither are stellar results BTW. My DCs comp got 81.5% a-C including Maths and English (not at all religious, any selection is by postcode/parents willing to appeal).

Coolas · 26/10/2014 09:27

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Hakluyt · 26/10/2014 09:33

"Neither are stellar results BTW"

They might be. Depends on the demographic/cohort/catchment.

Straight %ages in this context mean nothing.

VivaLeBeaver · 26/10/2014 12:00

Hakulut, because she is coasting. Her progress from year 6 to year 9 hasn't been great. Just had her parents evening and she's got Lvl 5a in science. She was Lvl 6a at the beginning of year 7. So she's gone down a whole grade in two years.

I guess it could have happened in a grammar school but I kind of doubt it.

But the teachers don't seem fussed about lack of progress because she's still achieving more than a lot of other kids in her year.

I'm not saying this is the same for every comp. I'm just talking about the specific school that dd is at. Its not overly academic. Has a 40% gcse pass rate compared to 99% at the grammar.