To be angry with MIL over food hygiene?

[Shil0846]

MIL supposed to be helping me prepare family dinner. After putting Ds down for his nap, I discovered her with the raw chicken on my kitchen table (close to place mats and 1 of DS's toys) busy stuffing lemon up it's bottom. So I moved them away and went to the cupboard to get the veg.

When I turned round, I found she'd collected a bottle of oil, a knife from my cutlery drawer, onions and a tub of butter from the fridge - all without washing her hands. To get to the onions she'd have had to move the lettuce and tomato in the salad drawer of my fridge.

Am I over-reacting to think this is really disgusting and dangerous -particularly with a 1 YO in the house? She got very defensive when I asked her to wash her hands and said she's been cooking for over 50 years without any problem. She was also fuming when I insisted on scrubbing down the table where the chicken had been. Am I being too precious about this, or do I need to wash all cutlery/fridge door/bottles etc that may have come into contact?

YANBU!

That is disgusting and unacceptable!

Washing raw meat, especially chicken, is also wrong and potentially dangerous.

www.food.gov.uk/news-updates/campaigns/campylobacter/fsw-2014

www.foodsafety.gov/keep/basics/mistakes/

I would have thrown the salad away if she touched it with raw-chicken-hands. No way I'd eat anything that was touched by it, unless it can be cooked.
I double bag my chicken in the supermarket, I pick it up with a clear veg bag, maybe that's ott, but the thought that the chicken juice might touch anything else is gross.

Ynbu at all. And I would have washed everything she has touched, too.

Luis I never found out for sure but at the time had to fill in a questionnaire from the local health trust and answer questions about all the places I had eaten in the fortnight before I became ill. They then investigated those establishments.

I read afterwards that a huge percentage of campylobacter cases are from (or the handling of) raw chicken. Have been extra careful since.

I am with you op.

I am extremely careful about raw meat and would have chucked the salad away.

Oh, ick!

Why on earth didn't she wash her hands?! Raw poultry can mean horrific things in the illness department.

I'm not at all precious when it comes to my dd touching and handling most things. She can sit in the dogs bed and share her ice creams with the filthy pup and play in the dirt all she wants as far as I'm concerned. But raw meat is quite another matter.

Scrub down anything you think she touched, OP, just to be safe - and remember to include any door handles and the fridge too. Throw the salad bits out.

YANBU.

God, no, OP, YANBU.

I'm pretty close to the definition of an utter slob when it comes to cleaning, and probably including the kitchen generally, but the one thing I am ruthless about - and have had rows with my husband about, is food hygiene.

Too, my Mum was a disgrace with food hygiene, so consequently, I'm pretty bomb proof.

I still wouldn't be doing what your MIL did - it flat out is asking for trouble.

Shil0846 You are not being unreasonable. I have had food poising lots of times, well at least 4, and never at home! Have travelled quite widely and most of this was from things like prawns but once from chicken, it was awful!

If it happened to me I would throw away the salad items and wash the areas I was worried about.

I guess I would also make a mental note not to ask MIL for help with cooking the meat and if she does want to help I would ask for help with puddings or whatever.

I have not read the whole thread so no idea what others have said.

I am sure your MIL was upset and I would personally want to smooth the waters and just explain my worries without sounding judgemental (if possible) but I do feel you are totally right that raw chicken should not come into contact with anything else but the kitchen utensils, knife, pan you are cooking it in etc.

(I am a bit OCD when it comes to food hygiene and having had food poisoning about 4 times I would want to avoid the possibility of it again).

I agree with you. Having been ill from poor chicken hygiene when on holiday. It was horrendous. You are right to be sensible.

When I turned round, I found she'd collected a bottle of oil, a knife from my cutlery drawer, onions and a tub of butter from the fridge

so, if you didn't see her go in teh fridge, how do you know she didn't wash her hands first.

yanbu

i've been in hospital from chicken related food poisoning, i an very very anal about handwashing and cross contamination from raw chicken.

I'm with you Op. After having Campylobacter years ago, I will never ever let the raw chicken touch anything else or let my hands do the same without washing them first.

i do the raw hand/clean hand thing. i'm left handed, so i remember by making sure my right hand is the only one that touches the meat, so i can turn taps on and move things to the sink with the clean hand.

i honestly think, from straw polls with RL friends, that until you've had or know someone who's had chicken related food poisoning, that you just dont understand how serious it is to be really careful with the hygiene.

Raw chicken, as loads of people have already said, you have to be scrupulous about kitchen hygiene to avoid cross contamination.

I also remember my ex-MIL serving roast pork "cooked to rare" she said proudly. The only person who ate it was her as she refused to put it back in the oven to finish cooking as everything else was ready!

The meat was stone cold in the middle as she hadn't put the oven on to heat before putting the meat in AND had misread the cooking times of xx minutes per 450g + xx minutes so had added the times together without calculating the first length of time and refused to listen when everyone there told her she had made a mistake.

Bad hygiene in the kitchen makes my stomach turn at the very idea of it!

YANBU
I don't like guests cooking in my house. I have had friends come in from the bus / dog walks and start preparing food without washing hands which I find really disgusting. It probably won't make me ill but I just find it off putting.

Raw chicken is a proper risk though.

If there's a next time provide her with disposable gloves, easier to insist on than hand washing which may be poorly done anyway if she doesn't think it important.
I think this is a bit of a generational thing, my mum wouldn't be so careful.

Another campylobacter victim here... Traced back to chicken from DHS work (boarding school) and notified to the HPA or someone. I lost 15% of my bodyweight in a week - never felt so bad in my life.

YANBU! You're not describing obsessive compulsive cleaner tendencies, just basic food hygiene!

I also remember my ex-MIL serving roast pork "cooked to rare" she said proudly.

Although I eat beef raw, rare pork isn't to my taste, so it's the one meat I cook to 70+ degrees at the core, but the reason for the health concern isn't about food poisoning. Historically, pork was contaminated with trichina worms, and rare pork left you at serious risk of trichinosis. For the last ten or fifteen years trichina has been pretty much eliminated from the European food chain: a few areas have managed to eliminate it completely, and everyone else tests for it

ec.europa.eu/food/food/biosafety/hygienelegislation/trichinella_en.htm

But in any event, trichina are killed at about 60C, and you would have to be eating meat seriously rare for the internal temperature not to reach that. And trichina don't tend to cross-contaminate, as they're usually quite deep into the meat. So unless you like your pork very rare and you're extremely unlucky to have bought a piece of meat that wasn't properly screened, you're OK.

If the pork wasn't infected with trichina whilst the pig was alive it won't become so post slaughter, unlike the stuff that affects chicken, which is a serious hazard with post-slaughter handling. So like a lot of the people posting, I'm very careful with chicken (wash hands, don't reuse chopping boards and knives other than for things that are going to be cooked with the chicken, be very careful with liquids and packaging) but I'm more casual with pork.

I don't think you're being unreasonable about the raw chicken, but I think you could use some tact. What good does being angry and belittling your mother in law do? It's possible to be right and kind.

You are definitely not BU!

... and this was in your own house! Ban her from 'helping' in future and put her on babysitting duty instead.

DH had food poisoning from chicken not long before we met. He is 6'0 and normally weighs roughly 11.5 stone. He was down to 10 stone 1!!!! He'd lost 1.5 stones in 3 days and says he genuinely believed he was going to die he felt that ill .

I really really don't want it. We are super careful with raw chicken, and raw egg.

duhgldiuhfdsli

Thanks for that info, explains a lot better than I could. :)

There's also the minor matter that raw/very rare pork is absolutely disgusting.

One theory is that it's the closest in texture to human flesh, so awakens a very dark place in our instincts. Probably bollocks, but ghoulishly plausible as well.

Not sure campylobacter is in raw egg . I happily eat raw/runny eggs - it's really only raw meat I'm super careful with.

Another thing is that now we all use reusable shopping bags, the material can become pretty grubby. You don't really want your lettuce next to the package containing the raw meat. It's the one thing I still use plastic for.