What is Halal Meat?

[FreeSpirit89]

My friends DS goes to a different school to my DS, and she contacted me today about the introduction of a few Halal meat dishes at her DS school. So from what I understand they have a choice of 3 main dishes per day, a standard meat option, a veggie option and a Halal option.

She is upset about this, and asked if our school had done the same. I told her it hadn't and she responded that I should worry as it will probably follow suit.

Now I didn't say it at the time, but What is Halal meat? Have I been living under a rock or something? I have no idea what the big deal is about it.

Is there a place I can go to find out maybe a website of some description? I have had a quick google, but I only seem to come across forum threads like this. I'm sort of looking for factual advice not opinions.

Thank you.

One of the issues is that quite horrible methods of killing are used with the assumption of stunning. In Halal slaughter the method is quick in comparison because of the tradition of not stunning. If an animal is not correctly stunned in haram or treif methods they go through worse. So, halal or kosher meat is less humane assuming every animal is correctly stunned. Which they aren't, not all of them.

There is also supposed to be more humane methods of raising livestock in kosher and halal meat production.

If I were an animal, I would like to be raised kosher or halal, stunned then killed in a kosher or halal way. Which I believe is how a lot of UK halal meat is done, if not all.

Also, why does no one seem to care about kosher meat? It only seems to become an issue when it's the way Muslims kill animals, not Jews. Why is that.

So now you know what halal meat is, do you think your mate is:

1. concerned about animal welfare?
2. concerned about "Muslims coming to our country and taking over"?

Actually much of New Zealand lamb sold as ordinary meat is in fact halal in order for it to be accepted worldwide for any type of culture.

My husband is muslim, and we buy halal meat for him. (ASDA sells it)
There's been a lot of controversy fairly recently about animal welfare. Stunning before killing is the norm in UK slaughterhouses, but several Jewish and Muslim butchery here is done under licence for halal and kosher sale. The problems arise when unauthorised slaughter is undertaken and cruelty can occur. Vets are divided in their evaluation of the welfare of the animal during despatch.

I think it's fine for children of various faiths to be accommodated if possible in school with a menu choice. Why not? Anyone who wants 'ordinary' meals has the option.
We should all get along together if at all possible.

In one of the last threads here about it, one comment stuck in my mind, sort of as a short cut to all that is worth thinking about in the meat life/death debate.

Worrying about Halal and stunning is wholly out of proportion. You are worrying about the last few seconds/minutes of an animals life... Maybe the previous months/years are also worthy of consideration, maybe the balance in the debate is slightly out of kilter.

Personally, having seen slaughterers at work in the 80s and a couple of years ago, stunning is not really the be all and end all of the final cut. The skill of the knife wielder is of paramount importance.

Also, as not all Halal meat is stunned/not stunned, the debate usually ends up with a pointless argument about the prayer that is said as the animal is slaughtered.

But I always come back to the same thing. I eat meat. The welfare of the whole life of the animal is important to me and, as I can only eat it if it is killed, how it dies is also important. I have always killed my own food: rabbits mainly, so I do lack a certain amount of squeam, but I would rather the focus was on a calm entrance to the slaughter room and a well trained person with a good sharp knife. All else, prayer, stunning etc, is of secondary importance to me. But mostly, I cannot get too high on my horse, as I am the reason that an animal has lived and died...

We should all get along together if at all possible.

Halal meat is cruel, it is,exempted from the law that requires all animals to be stunned before being killed.

Better to be vegetarian though if you care about animals.

Do I shout Bingo now?

I agree with Nomama, the whole life of the animal is just as important as its death. Dh and I are both very interested in free-range, natural pasture, open air grazing etc, so that the creatures have had a stress-free existence.
Unless one is a Vegan, one has to accept that something dies in order that we might eat.

Halal means 'allowed' lots of things are halal ...meat that is halal is killed according to religious guidelines

Thank you all.

I am hoping it is the animal welfare side my friend is worried about but I have a strong doubt about it. She's not really worried about animals in general, besides her pets.

Thank you once again for all those who helped me.

Your friend thinks you should worry?
About what, exactly?

Cross post there, sorry. So you suspect your friend's concerns stem from xenophobia?

Yes I do suspect maybe she's more worried about that than the animals welfare. It's a shame, I thought she was a nice girl.

Sorry Freespirit. That was snarky of me. Glad other posters have come along and explained.

Carrierpenguin, I hate to break it to you, but ALL meat is cruel.

I don't get why people are so wound up on halal from an animal welfare perspective. Do you really think that the chicken you buy from Tesco has led a happier life and been killed in a less cruel way than halal chicken?

I do eat meat (I haven't always; I did used to be vegan...) but I'm not naive enough to imagine that meat produced on a mass industrial basis is anything but brutal.

(Btw the "you" wasn't aimed directly at anyone in particular, just a kind of general anyone)

I find it quite amazing how little interest people take in slaughtering processes (and animal welfare while they're alive) until it comes to the question of halal practices. Then suddenly all these people (often those who happily buy value chicken, which is hardly likely to have a nice life) are up in arms about animal cruelty. People also seem to suddenly take much more of an interest in how the products are labelled, where previously they hadn't given a shit.

An I cannot, for the life of me, see how anyone could complain about a school adding a halal meat option to their menus. It doesn't in any way reduce the choices available to your children, but might help others. What's not to like?

"Halal meat is cruel, it is,exempted from the law that requires all animals to be stunned before being killed."

Nearly 90% of all animals killed by halal methods in the UK are stunned before slaughter.

Read about what exactly the halal method entails here.

Since reading the extraordinary Sapiens by Yuval Hariri, the point about the distinctions between slaughter methods being far less important than the fact of keeping animals has had extra force for me.

Among the other astonishing/terrifying facts in the book, he points out:

• humans' combined mass today is about 300m tons; our domesticated farm animals' combined mass is about 700m tons; and the combined mass of surviving wild animals is under 100m tons. We have overwhelmed the world.
• Only 10,000 years ago, there were just a few million farm animals. Today, there are a billion sheep, a billion pigs, a billion cows and 25 billion chickens. Virtually all of them are living horrible lives.

I would far rather eat halal meat than meat killed in the torture shops of the British meat industry.

Put it this way: DM used to volunteer for the Samaritans, and a lot of her callers worked for a very big, very famous poultry concern. The throughput demanded a degree of callousness that drove the staff to despair.

It's like one of my friends gets very upset about eating Halal meat ''because it's cruel'' yet doesn't take her cat to the vet for her yearly vaccinations...

I think your friend just doesn't like that strange forren Muslims are being catered for. I'm sure the school couldn't care less what she thinks about the matter. Maybe she should move to a much less ethnic part of the country.

Here in our sleepy corner of Oz, there is helal meat on sale, but it is not sold in the large supermarkets as there is not the demand. I have to,say, I would not buy helal meat, as I am not happy about the slaughter methods.

I think the confusion arises from different slaughter practices of halal meat. Some interpret the religious element to prevent pre-stunning. I believe this is a minority. (although the fact it happens at all when more humane methods are available is a problem). I was speaking to an Indonesian muslim today who told me they had a relaxed attitude towards halal slaughter which was satisfied as long as a prayer was said around the time of slaughter. And he cannot eat meat from pigs as they are unclean.

Kosher slaughter I believe is even more harsh and mostly prevents pre-stunning. Correct me if I am wrong someone.

I agree that slaughter practices in this country and in many others leave a lot to be desired. It upsets me greatly and I'm mostly vegetarian now. It really should not be beyond the capabilities of all the government agencies we have to institute excellent practices (and reduce lengthy travelling requirements).

I think that is rather taking the focus out of the argument HomeHelp. In many Northern European countries, cattle and sheep lead rather pleasant, if short, lives. Most of them live in stable herds with sufficient food and water, and frequently turnout other than in winter. Poultry and pigs are a different matter. We still need to focus on the end to that life being as humane as possible.

That said, I don't want to eat halal meat even if it is pre-stunned; its not my religion and I don't want another religion's practices superimposed on me.

"I have always killed my own food: rabbits mainly"

Nomama, can I ask how you kill your rabbits?