Potentially dodgy stepfather - what to do?

[doristheterrible]

I am looking for advice on a situation within my family. In brief, my sister has got together with a new man - been together for a couple of years' now. This man is a creep. He has a habit of brushing (just short of groping!) boobs when he gets the opportunity, and generally is far too tactile, in all the wrong places, again when he gets the opportunity. For example, letting his hand brush over your bum when kissing hello.

He does this in plain sight of other people but it is cleverly subtle, and so far no member of my family has had the balls (probably wrong choice of language!) to confront him directly about it, although most female members (apart from my Mum - surprise!) have experienced it first hand. We have though mentioned this several times to my sister who gets very angry and upset and denies all knowledge, suggesting that he is just 'friendly.'

Anyway, we could probably just about live with having a creep in the family, but the trouble is she has a young teenage daughter. On several occasions we have had to endure watching him touch her in what we consider an inappropriate fashion - playing with her hair, holding her hand, stroking her face, etc. We possibly might think this was OK, if it was not for the context. As it is, it is almost unbearable to watch. We are really worried about it. Not necessarily that he might take it further, but really that no potential stepfather should be touching his teenage stepdaughter in this way - or to be honest, at all.

Are we over-reacting ie being unreasonable? What would you do? There is no way my sister will leave this man.

Would you be able to find out from the police whether he has a record? I know women who have a new boyfriend can find out, but am not sure whether you can in your position.

I would write to your niece and tell her your concerns. Say that everyone has noticed and name those people.

He sounds a real creep and I agree you should call him on it every single time, but I think the men should, too.

Is your sister the kind of person who'd do anything to stay with a man?

Amazing isn't it that even today women are inhibited from making a scene about men groping. I'm sure most of us have been victims of serepticious and unwanted fondling or touching just short of assault (actually it is assault).

'She likes the attention' is the sort of thing people used to say about child abuse victims.

Oh I have no doubt he knows it's inappropriate. In some ways it is a good 'cover' for his behaviour - the men in the family are even giving him the benefit of the doubt. Oh he's a good bloke, just a bit touchy-feely, it's not like he's hurting anybody is it? Anyway, if doris didn't like it, she could always give him a slap couldn't she? Women like that sort of attention, they just say they don't....

And while he gropes everyone it will be easy for him to start groping your niece when she gets just a little bit older. It's not like he's targetting a teenage girl or anything, he's just like that with everyone. We all know what he's like, it's just the way he is...

I would have a word with your niece about boundaries. Make it more general, not just about this one man. Talk about how some men will grope and need to be told when to back off. Talk about how some men will start trying it on, getting a little more intimate each time, until you let them away with stuff you wouldn't have done if they'd started out doing it right at first. Make sure she knows she doesn't have to agree to x just because she agreed to y, that letting a boy hold your hand doesn't mean you want him to kiss you, or put his hand up your skirt. That she always has the right to say No.

All you can do is try to give her the confidence to know that she can call a halt to things if she's uncomfortable with them.

And, as I said above, calling him out on it, even once, helps to show that what you're telling her is real, not just "Do as I say, not as I do"

Please step in and do something. This is your NIECE for ffs and if it is innocent, fine but it really does not sound like it is. Her mother won't protect her as she wants her man. DO something and stand up to this pervert. If he does abuse her she will NEVER get over it.

Is 'Clare's Law' in effect now? Where you can ask the police for a background check on new partners of you have any worries.

Some men are overly affectionate and some men go beyond this. Your gut instinct is telling you that this man is a wrong 'un, always trust your gut on this. Like the others have said, speak up when he hugs or kisses you. Take his power away, 'urgh! What are you doing groping my arse/boobs/whatever'. Only when people can hear you. And give your OH a kick up the bum, my DP would go raging if I was in your position.

Send your niece a text, just to keep in touch, asking about her day-to-day stuff. Keep communication open so try not to piss your sister off.

Sounds like this man is long overdue for a short, sharp knee in the scrotum. Or perhaps a heavily-ringed hand going flat across his mush...

My SIL's brother used to visit my parents' home regularly when I was still living there in my early teens. He'd greet me with a hug and do the same thing your sister's partner is doing OP, groping in a very subtle manner.

I know that people saw that he was touching me, but nobody ever said anything. I even saw my mother raise her eyebrows in shock once, but again she didn't say anything. So neither did I. Even though I felt extremely uncomfortable and violated. There was all this talk about him being a 'bit creepy', but nobody addressed the issue directly.

A couple of years later he was arrested for having sex with a minor and indecent images of children were found on his computer. Nobody was surprised yet nobody said anything about what he was doing to me when it was happening. Too afraid to cause a scene.

I'll bet, if the way he's touching your DSD is so blatantly inappropriate yet nobody's objecting, she isn't speaking up, for that reason. Once somebody says something it will make the elephant in the room too hard to ignore.

Sorry, your niece*

There is a man like this is DH's family. I am probably the only person he hasn't groped because he " brushed past" me once and I loudly said that I would prefer if he didn't touch me. There was stunned silence and DH said later I was rude but I don't care. I was sure I saw him grope a teenage family member once and at our engagement party my friend said that she thought this mans behaviour with another female family member was inappropriate. Each time I mentioned it to DH he was very defensive and I got all the crap about that generation etc etc etc.
Anyway, about a year ago this man was accused by a family member of sexually assaulting her daughter. Everyone up in arms about how ridiculous this was etc. it caused a lot of trouble but I had to tell them all that I felt it could be true. The girl in trouble had form for making up allegations which we all knew to be false but in this case I knew that it was probably true.
Huge family fall out and DH has apologised to me and said he wished he had listened years ago as he felt this man could have been stopped in his tracks if challenged earlier.
Call him out on it every time you see something inappropriate, don't imagine it will make you popular but you HAVE to do it. I wish I had been more vocal years earlier than I was - some people in the family still refuse to believe it or dismiss it as just how that generation behaved and he doesn't mean anything by it . That's bollocks, it's wrong.

Men like this do rely on women quietly putting up with it so as not to cause a scene

This is so true and in all walks of life, everyone is upset of making a scene, sometimes a scene is needed!

Its very worrying. can you phone ncppss or somewhere for proper advice?

Def alert father

It's a total power play.

TBH, given that your sister insists on doing nothing, I would go straight to SS. But that's because I've seen the repercussions in the past of people letting "minor" behaviour go.

Thanks for all your responses. I am going to think hard about everything I can do in order to try to help my niece. I don't think I can get social services involved. Apart from anything else, the fact that he plays with her hair doesn't in itself seem like a smoking gun - although we all acknowledge it's totally inappropriate. I am going to talk to my sister, to him, and to my niece, and the rest of my family,
so that we have a plan of action.

Ok can i suggest that you look up the nr for ss so that if your suspicions continue you have the info to hand? And perhaps talk to the nspcc for some advice?

Do your parents live nearer, if so it may be better for your mother to talk to her other daughter and her granddaughter.
It's horrible when you say or do something for the best and then it's a case of shoot the messenger. So in your case nothing changed except your DSis falling out with you.

Personally I wouldn't be comfortable with causing a scene or saying 'get off' etc. I'd find it very difficult. Although it's absolutely the right thing to do to call him on his behaviour it isn't always easy to find the way that you can carry through and for it to be effective and not laughed off.

When we got together I'd preempt anything by grabbing hold of both his arms and hold him away as he kissed hello. If I could I'd tell him 'hello X' and carry on that you're not keen on close physical contact. Accompany that with a bit of a stare. Maybe your mother could try exactly the same technique so he'd be well aware it was something you've discussed.

I'm not trying to wimp out but without seeing him in action none of us can assess if he's inappropriate but simply vague and well meaning or if it has more sinister connotations. Rather than have your DSis fall out with you again you do want to keep your communications open for your DN and also DSis. Very tricky.

OP please do something about this - I think what he is doing is extremely worrying. The stroking the hair / hand of your DN is actually part of a pattern that abusers use whereby they slowly transgress boundaries over time in order to gain a hold over their victims. They purposely do this in public to normalise their behaviour - in this case your DN may be ignoring her instincts of disliking the behaviour because no-one has said anything. The fact that nothing has been said, in effect, tells your DN that this behaviour is acceptable because otherwise Mum / Auntie Doris / Grandma would have said something.

Personally I wouldn't be comfortable with causing a scene or saying 'get off' etc.

Please tell me you've not got a daughter. And if you have I hope to god you've managed to not pass on your attitude.

It's not 'making a scene'. You don't need to go in all guns blazing. You just say "stop touching my breast" calmly. He says he didn't. You say "yes you did, don't do it again" and refuse to be drawn any more on the matter. Anyone who accuses you of 'making a scene' if you do that, is, a grade A twat.

Also, my sister says that she likes the attention. That made my blood run cold. She is at risk and your sister is enabling this.

I would talk to SS but that is because I used to work there so probably less worried about their involvement than some. NSPCC, the child's school, the rest of the family. Remember secrets and lies; keeping silence; not speaking out; not talking are the friends of abuse.

Would contact Ss, you aren't wasting their time but the will assess the situation and advise you whether you need to take this further.
They won't be rushing in.

Whenever you see him stroking her hair just say 'why do you always stroke her hair'. If he says its because its so beautiful etc, say that its not normal, she's not a dog/cat. Keep drawing attention to it whenever you see it. If he realises that people are noticing he'll soon stop

Urgh he sounds awful, creepy. You must speak up.

Please tell me you've not got a daughter. And if you have I hope to god you've managed to not pass on your attitude
Yes I do. Well adjusted, safe and assertive adult thanks.

I think you mistake my point. There's a difference between 'making a scene' and as I said, speaking directly to that person, preventing his actions and saying he's transgressed personal boundaries. You didn't select the part of my post where I specifically said
it's absolutely the right thing to do to call him on his behaviour it isn't always easy to find the way that you can carry through and for it to be effective and not laughed off
which is what has happened when the OP's DH and others, have accused her of overreacting. When others are in denial you have to make sure your actions aren't dismissed as simply hysterical.

It's not all about the OP who could simply choose not to see this man again, it's more important to find an effective way of handling this issue than simply being loud and causing yet another family fall out which isolates the DN and her mother.

If he was some random man then I wouldn't have an issue with speaking out bluntly, but in this situation I fear that approach would heap more problems on the family and not solve any. It's already been said many times on this thread how insidious abusers are and I think that's an important point to bear in mind.

when the OP's DH and others, have accused her of overreacting. When others are in denial you have to make sure your actions aren't dismissed as simply hysterical. If my DH implied or told me that I was not allowed to react in exactly the way I chose to sexual assault, which is what this is, he would be an ex. Men have been taught to see women as emotional, stupid, hysterical and overreacting. That is their problem, not ours. Our job is not to fit things into their poor little heads in bite-sized chunks in order to help them understand. Our job is to create a world for ourselves and our children where women aren't routinely assaulted. Thankfully the men in my life are intelligent, empathetic and wise enough to be allies.

Doristheterrible I have worked with sex offenders previously and this man sounds like he is grooming your niece please talk to social services in your nieces area, ring the nspcc or the police. You are not being unreasonable you are protecting a child. As everyone else says it's important she knows what appropriate boundaries are and that she has your support but sex offenders can be incredibly clever and will work round all sorts of barriers with great effectiveness. I'm on maternity leave so a little bit rusty but I'm sure Clare's law is now fully in force. Having said that lots if abusers a have histories that don't ever fully come to light. I really don't mean to scare you but please do something, the fallout maybe terrible but you will know you have done your best to protect your niece.

I would look into using Sarah's law. You might not get a direct answer as you're not a parent, guardian, but it would trigger a response if a background check revealed something regardless.