To be really confused about post 16 education?

[InSpaceNooneCanHearYouScream]

Ugh. I have a son in year 11, doesn't know what he wants to do, the only things he likes are art graphics and IT, no idea how he's going to do in his GCSEs, although he is predicted c's and d's, maybe a b in art graphics. He would quite like to go to college, but I'm having a hard time wading through all the online prospectuses, and he himself can't even be bothered to think about it .... Grrrrr!. What are everyone else's not-particularly- academic kids thinking of doing post GCSEs?

My other half wasn't particularly academic at school (got C's and D's in his GCSEs) and went on to do an apprenticeship with an alarm company. He is now still with that same company 13 years later and is a senior engineer. Apprenticeships are definitely a good option for those who don't particularly enjoy a classroom setting. Hope this helps

There are a lot of IT apprenticeships about at the minute, often with big name IT companies. You work and do a college course at the same time. There are also vocational courses for programming, web design, etc. It's a booming industry, there's great career prospects and a skills shortage, and he can get well qualified without having to do A levels etc if that's not his thing.

If he's into art design and IT, sounds like getting him into coding, IT, or web design would be perfect. Look for apprenticeships in that field. If none available, get him to write off to as many companies as possible asking for work experience/internships in IT. Not sure where you are, but London in particular have a lot of trendy start ups that would appreciate an extra pair of hands.
Sounds like he's not sure what he wants to do, so I'd recommend getting him into these workplaces so he can be inspired and hopefully that will give him a bit of a direction?

True- thanks for the sensible replies!

Look at Btec national diplomas and certificates such as art and design - you can do a one year cert with d 's at gcse and move on to a two year diploma or go onto the dip with 4 c's including English usually

Also look at www.apprenticeships.org.uk

Oh and a Btec diploma is equal to 3-4 a levels if they gain a distinction

I failed school miserably, i was badly bullied and suffered with depression which contributed to only leaving with C in English and B in spanish. Never bothered to do Maths because I see numbers jumbled up. I panic. Anyway, I went to college my first year out of school. Hated it. Went to another college the year after and dropped out the last week of October.
Then, the following January, I got an apprenticeship with a Solicitor's firm. It's crap wage, but it's experience and I get a qualification soon. My little sister is also in year 11 and she is wanting an apprenticeship with a travel company. I think apprenticeships are the way for everyone, not just non-acedemic kids, seeing as employers don't really care for qualifications, more experience

Thanks Esplii, and well done

Is he going to get Cs for English and Maths?
If not Cs he'll need to retake them both and possibly do a Level2 vocational qualification alongside

If he is going to get a C for one and no lower than a D for the other he may be able to do a Level3 qualification whilst retaking.

Apprenticeships he gets paid, plus day release to college (I think).

Other vocational qualifications (BTECs) are mainly coursework assessed (no exams) and vary from Motor mechanics, Uniformed public services, construction, business, travel and tourism, childcare, outdoor education etc.

I would not recommend coding for someone who struggles with maths.

Try to get him to aim for his 5Cs inc English and Maths and he will have more options.

Thanks teen- you're right- but we have to apply for sixth form courses now, without a clear idea of what results he might get. That's the bit that's confusing me. He's thinking of trying to do A/AS in Art Graphics; a Cambridge Technical in IT, and two btecs. Does that sound remotely sensible? But then where do retakes fit in.....? Uurghh

No you don't - have to apply now I mean. They just tell you that.

He can delay until next year when he may have a better idea of the kind of thing he wants to do.

But no, you can't do 2 btecs plus a technical and an A level - that's the equivalent if about 3 full time courses.

Your best bet is to go to at least 2 local colleges. Go and ask about BTECs in general, and then IT specifically. Ask both what they would suggest, if they can accommodate an AS (some can, we don't, but it depends on the college and its timetable).

A BTEC is a fulltime course. L3 Extended Diploma is the equivalent of A levels but may have slightly lower entry requirments. You would usually need Cs in maths, English and then maybe science or other course specific requirement.

L2 is the course you take to make up for low GCSEs in order to get on L3. You may not have English and maths at grade C. Sadly, with a D grade, next year your only option is to resit in 1 year - without all the support and time you get at school. Those with Es and below will still be able to take Functional Skills - and then GCSEs during their next course.

At level 3 you could be put on a Subsidiary course - usually to gain extra knowledge again to make up for low GCSEs. You may not have either English or maths and again, will be expected to retake GCSE. It would be possible, but not ideal, to have to take Functional Skills (having E or below in English or maths) and then GCSE when you go on to the Extended Diploma.

A levels require C in English and maths, plus whatever else they ask for. Funding means those 2 C grades are mandatory.

If you need more info let me know. As you may have guessed, this is my job, my specialist subject

This thread resonates with me, as I am in exactly the same position with my 15 year old daughter.

She is not academic, not predicted high grades and does struggle with those aspects of school. Apprenticeship would probably be the way to go, but getting ideas out of her about what she is interested in, we'll just say that getting blood out of a stone would be easier.

I have been trying to get her to think about it a bit, but I am bashing my head against a brick wall. She just doesn't get it, and resists the discussion.

They will be more resistant I suspect. They will be only too aware that they are being forced to do something an older sibling was not - ie they MUST continue for a couple more years AND they have to continue with English and maths until they get a C grade.

Even if they do have half an idea and WANT to they are probably feeling put upon because they HAVE to.

Try more general questions - stay on at school, go to college or look for a job and Apprenticeship.... arrange going to an Open Day and then let her lead with the questions.

I know that will be difficult so my next bit of advice is to arrange to go on your own to ask your questions. Yes! You can go without them! It happens a lot

sadly some kids just find it all overwhelming and scary :(

Do you not have access to a careers adviser in school - who should be (if the school are doing their job) qualified in careers guidance and impartial

schools are required to put this in place for students

many do not

Can I be really honest? Careers in schools have been utterly useless for quite some time. Their guidance is usually just plain wrong.

I don't blame the individuals who try, the funding was pulled, information is difficult to find, there is no central repository of what is needed next.

I would really strongly suggest that you would probably get more up to date and usable information from FE staff during an Open Day. We have to know what is going on... it is how we provide for our students!

Good advice, Nomama, and I will be trying that approach.

I am worried about the "having to" get certain results though. She could potentially do OK in English, perhaps a C, but in maths and sciences she really struggles. She seems actually scared of numbers. We will be setting aside an hour or so of time most weeks so that we can go through basics with her, but that is really the limit of what she will do. She has no real educational special needs, but I do wonder if she might be dyscalculate. She is in low set which gives as much help as the school can give her, but I can't see it being enough.

Who on earth sets these standards? They just don't seem to get that not all children are the same. Some will breeze through these (my two other daughters would), but others will struggle. It is no way to make a level playing field. If children are not academic by 16, they are unlikely to be by 18.

With DD1, we are going with 3 plans.

Plan A at college1 is A levels if year 11 seems to go well, and she gets good enough grades, and thinks it will be OK

Plan B1 at college2 is a BTEC with an AS/A level on the side (or extended BTEC without the AS/A level)

Plan B2 at college3 is a different BTEC with no A levels

Personally I think B1 is best for DD1, but I have 9 months to persuade her, and no decision is needed until August 21st.

Thankyou all very much... Nomama I can see I might be coming back to you. The problem is, I left school at 16 because I really wanted to start earning, and hubby did an apprenticeship, so we're a bit clueless! I really appreciate the advice!

What has confused me is that at the sixth form open day the staff member said you have to choose 4 subjects at sixth form. Obviously he's not academic enough for 3 or 4 a levels, so the idea was to try a level art and design if his results are good enough, plus some easier things. That's at our local comp sixth form. Other colleges are quite far away and he doesnt really want to travel.

Nomama the amount of time needed for a BTEC depends on the actual qualification studied - they range from AS equivalent to 3 A level equivalent so the proposal by the op is doable, depending on the level of BTEC

I teach the L3 certificate (AS), Sup Dip (1 A level) 90 credit Dip (1 A level + 1 As Level) and Ext Dip (3 A levels) in the same subject

Thanks Cricket, but blimey , no wonder I'm confused! I think I need to back to school to get through all this

Space - is there a careers adviser in school that he can meet with (whilst I know that they are not always the best source of information) they can give advice based on your area/local college offerings.

Also, college open evenings have a range of staff available to provide advice and guidance based on the courses they offer

Yes, thanks Cricket, but I was panicking slightly as the local colleges' open days for Sep 15 intake seem to have been and gone already

double check - our local colleges have several. If they have only had one, phone and make an appointment with them; given the competition for gaining students they will be only happy to oblige

Good advice- thanks