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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Holiday fines?

292 replies

frozen1234 · 19/10/2014 23:56

Hi.

Im after some advice.

We have been on holiday and took our son in september. We paid the fine.

We have another holiday in march and wondered what the process is? Would we get another fine or do they take you to court for the second time you do it. Out of curiosity can you keep having hols each year and paying the fine? Or will they eventually take you to court?

Thanks for any answers on the above questions..

OP posts:
Discobugsacha · 20/10/2014 14:06

The children they really need to target are those who miss school for a day or 2 every week as their parents can't be bothered to get out of bed to take them there. Not those with caring parents who want to enhance their children's lives by taking them on holiday. The old system was better- all children would be granted 2 weeks authorised leave for family holidays which made sense and recognised that not all learning is done in school.

I personally just phone my children in sick now if we go away for a long weekend. And I don't believe primary children miss much or "disrupt the class" by having the odd week off. There is nothing that primary age children can't catch up on in a few days at home even if they had 2 months off!

Sirzy · 20/10/2014 14:09

With such contempt for school why not just keep them at home all the time and not bother sending your children. You can obviously do much better at home disco

RufusTheReindeer · 20/10/2014 14:09

OP

I will be taking my three out of school for a week next year. I am prepared to suck up the fine

But to take them out for more than a week and to do it every year is very much chancing your arm.

According to my children's senior school a cause for concern is 92% attendance. Which works out to 15 days. Less than 92% requires immediate action

mummymeister · 20/10/2014 14:16

Sorry to be thick Mouse - your point is?

ClockwatchingLady makes some excellent points here about the incidental fluff of the argument.

if I changed job and was no longer self employed doing what I do now and in a job where I could take holidays in school holidays then I would. I wouldn't take time off in term time. There are lots of people in jobs or restricted as I am with no other option. you wouldn't say to a teacher, you can only take holidays in term time, knowing that their contract wouldn't allow them to. so why say it to someone in my position doing my job.

Momagain1 - yet another reason to head North. why is it not an issue in Scotland and a huge issue in England then?

Discobugsacha · 20/10/2014 14:18

What contempt for the school? I don't have any! I think the school also have their hands tied by the new rules. They are ridiculous and don't result in higher attendance for the children who really need to be in school more every single week.

I like schools and don't have the patience for home educating long term but i do know home educating parents and if you only have one child to teach you can certainly make up 2 months of a primary school education in a few days at home easily.

They need to target legislation where it is most effective. Not penalise parents for enhancing their children's education by taking them on holiday!

PossumPoo · 20/10/2014 14:20

well Sally I resent being told what I can and cant do with my DC...swings and roundabouts you know...

And momagain I wish I was in Scotland. The English system sucks and the obsession with education nearly does my head in. Don't make it such a fucking chore for everyone people!

But as I hope that it won't be my cross to bear for too much longer I will leave this ridiculous thread.

PS - OP I'm sure you've posted before about getting a fine for the holiday you've just recently taken? Did you really need to start another shit storm?

WorraLiberty · 20/10/2014 14:24

Scotland has a fairly big problem with low attendance due to term time holidays. They don't do fines, but they do have other sanctions in place.

Link here

Puzzledandpissedoff · 20/10/2014 14:39

If you can't afford it, you don't buy it. Same as with everything else in life. As enjoyable as a holiday is, it isn't an entitlement. And if the holiday is simply about quality time together, there are more affordable holidays such as camping

Excellent post and nothing more than the simple truth ... doubt you'll get many thanks for it, though Wink

Interesting that we still have parents who set the example of choosing which rules suit and which they're going to break - and then folk wonder why some kids turn out the way they do ...

PossumPoo · 20/10/2014 14:50

Interesting that we still have parents who set the example of choosing which rules suit and which they're going to break - and then folk wonder why some kids turn out the way they do ...

I wanted to leave this thread but OMG some posters just make me laugh! Yes Puzzle it will be those families who holiday with their DC whose DC turn out they way they do...

Puzzledandpissedoff · 20/10/2014 14:54

Gues I hit a nerve there, Possum Wink

DogCalledRudis · 20/10/2014 14:56

Interesting that we still have parents who set the example of choosing which rules suit and which they're going to break - and then folk wonder why some kids turn out the way they do

Its not about rules, its about individual rights and freedoms that are being clawed away for the sake of "greater good". We are already being commanded what our children can or can't wear, what they are allowed to eat for lunch, etc. Government always knows better, right?

PossumPoo · 20/10/2014 14:58

No not at all but I hope you do see the irony?!

Look on the whole I think it's wrong to take your DC out of school for term holidays. What I don't agree with is that some people really do need to do this and it's a typically-one-size-fits-all solution that has been put into place.

Discobugsacha · 20/10/2014 15:01

When I think of the people I know who have got the furthest and had the most interesting lives, they have been, without exception, rulebreakers. You don't have to follow rules if they're stupid! You need to use your common sense. Yes you don't take children out of school 2 weeks before their GCSEs but you can take your year 4 out to go skiing for a week in January. Different, see?! It's not difficult:)

mummymeister · 20/10/2014 15:01

puzzledandpissedoff - when my kids started school this rule was not in place. neither I nor any other parent was consulted about the rule change. do a bit of research and see how it came about. one report from one man who visited I think it was 17 schools all inner city and spoke to no teachers and no parents. most of the report is all about how to fine parents and take it out of their benefits!!

for the avoidance of doubt, I will say it again: I and many other parents are in jobs where we cannot take a camping holiday or any other holiday in school holidays. it is a simple truth. not all jobs are 9 - 5 not all workers can take their leave when they want to in school holidays with their children. we aren't the majority but we are a significant minority. good to know that you have never disagreed with a law or broken one. Never gone at 35 in a 30mph zone, never stopped on a double yellow. marvellous, well done you.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 20/10/2014 15:04

Government always knows better, right?

Not always, no - but if you disagree with a rule, the democrtic approach is to campaign to have it changed, not just ignore it and teach children to do the same

The greatest irony of all is that so many refuse to see it's the past massive abuse of the system which has caused the tightening-up ... only it's never them who've abused it, of course, as their case is special; it's always somebody else

Sirzy · 20/10/2014 15:06

I think for the minority (and it really is a minority) of people who can't take holidays during school holidays then 5 days should be allowed (with some discretion as to the time of year from the head). Beyond that the rules to not allow them except in exceptional circumstances is right IMO. You decide to use the school system you can't just pick and choose when it suits you to use it. And yes children do miss work in a week, of course they do, and yes they have to try to catch up with their peers who may have already secured their knowlesge of that topic and moved onto the next one.

mummymeister · 20/10/2014 15:07

Wrong puzzledandpissedoff. this rule is not about tightening up a massive abuse of the system. go read the report. its about taking benefits away from families that don't send their children to school. this is just the start of that process. and for what it is worth, I don't think that is right either.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 20/10/2014 15:12

The exceptional circumstances thing has always existed, Sirzy - and hopefully it always will. Trouble is, once one (perfectly genuine) case is granted, countless others cry "me too, me too!!" and you get the descending spiral we've seen in the past

In all fairnesss I don't think any of us particularly enjoy being told what we can and can't do when it doesn't suit; unfortunately we can't always have exactly what we want, which is another valuable lesson for children to learn

Sirzy · 20/10/2014 15:15

It has, but a lot of schools didn't use it they just let anyone go to stop complaints which is why I think things being tightened was so good. Most people don't NEED to holiday in term time they WANT to which is a very different thing

mummymeister · 20/10/2014 15:20

puzzledandpissedoff here is the link to Charlie Taylors report. it was this that sparked the rule change Here have a look at the website parentswantasay.co.uk

I don't care if other parents cry me too, me too. if they are in my shoes then why shouldn't they have leave. an even more valuable lesson for children is spending time with their parents away from the home/office situation that we have knowing that they have my full and undivided attention for one week anyway. no comment made about law breaking I see!!

Puzzledandpissedoff · 20/10/2014 15:30

Yes I'm aware of the report, mummymeister, though I find it a bit worrying that the only thing you seem to have deduced from it is a reduction in benefits

I didn't comment on the rulebreaking remark because, had I broken the ones you mentioned it would actually be a lot worse than you think ... because I don't drive Grin

As so many have said before, nobody's arguing that there aren't some genuine exceptions needed to these rulings - but neither can it be denied that, as Sirzy said, the majority CAN holiday outside term time but just don't WANT to. Pity they don't just say so and be strightforward about it ...

mummymeister · 20/10/2014 15:41

for some people puzzledandpissedoff this is not an issue about holidays. it is about being able to make decisions about your children. my point is not that I have only deduced benefit reductions from this report. far from it. but the report does go on disproportionately imo about the fines and how to levy them as if this was one of the most important factors.

Lots of people commenting on these posts come out with the "you have 13 weeks to book holidays in so why don't you do it then" line with no appreciation that this is not an option for everyone. I am just waiting for the explosion of AIBU's in January/February when folks with kids go to book holidays in school holiday time only to find that

a) they have already gone or
b) the price has gone up massively from the previous year.

It stands to reason if you only have 13 weeks to cram your income into rather than 52, then prices will go up in those 13 weeks.

have you never broken a law or rule then puzzled (used the driving one as couldn't immediately think of another)

Sirzy · 20/10/2014 15:44

You make the decision to send your child to school you agree to send them in unless they are ill/exceptional circumstances. It's a simple as that.

As adults surely it's not hard to understand you can't always have your own way and do things when you want?

mummymeister · 20/10/2014 15:51

Sirzy - that's such a comfort to people in jobs where they cannot take time off in term time. your compassion to parents with different jobs and life experiences moves me to tears. Of course we cant always have what we want. but really if it was as simple as that why are so many people unhappy with it. what about the next new law Sirzy? what if it affects you directly? will you just suck it up?

WorraLiberty · 20/10/2014 15:53

If a parent can never ever take time off during the school holidays, they can get their employer to back that up in writing.

In my DC's school, it would be looked into under the 'special circumstances'.