To think that secondary schools should not make children do desk duty

[ReallyTired]

My son's school gets each child to spend a day on the front desk on reception doing errands. They miss a whole day of lessons to do the job that frankly should be done by paid staff. I feel its wrong that parents get fined for taking their children out of school, but schools are allowed to waste children's time doing cr*p.

I just thought of something too

Our DC go to a state school. It is an outstanding school and has been judged to be so by OFSTED for over a decade. It is fairly large (1600 plus pupils) and rural. I post this in case it is relevant.

Each year, there is a large agricultural show nearby. Many of the kids have some form of agricultural background. For the duration of the show, the pupils that are involved in the show are given authorised absence to attend.

I wish I could find the email allowing my DD to attend, but it clearly stated that this was a policy that was arrived at with the full involvement of the LEA, and extended to any of the other schools in said LEA that would have pupils involved and recognising the benefit and relevance to their lifestyles.

This doesn't affect just a handful of pupils, a significant number of kids attend. The school attendance is vastly reduced during that week.

Our DD, it is fair to say, did work hard at the show, it involves a lot of graft but also had a fair amount of time shopping the various stands with her mates too

I know it's not quite the same, but I thought the school and particularly the LEA stance was interesting. This is a successful LEA too.

We did that in Y7 at my secondRy school. 2x half days I think rather than 1 full day.

It's nice vis you miss lessons, but with all the fuss the schools and govt are making about attendance I'm not sure if be happy for my child to miss maths to be a message boy while I can't talk him out of school to go skiing. Or whatever.

Each year, there is a large agricultural show nearby. Many of the kids have some form of agricultural background. For the duration of the show, the pupils that are involved in the show are given authorised absence to attend.

And later, over in research land, the poor outcomes in terms of post-16 and post-18 education in rural areas are the topic of much debate.

www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/news/rural-a-level-students-much-less-likely-to-go-to-university/2005005.article

My parents live in an area where there are no graduate jobs outside teaching and the NHS and extremely low unemployment. Why would rural pupils want to go to university if the jobs available to them as adults do not require a university education?

Why would rural pupils want to go to university if the jobs available to them as adults do not require a university education?

How many graduates from good universities end up living in their home town?

A lot of people want to live in their home town, especially when their families have thriving multi-generational businesses.! It is not bad per se to have some stability in local communities.

I used to mind the phone in the headmaster's office if he was out, and run errands for him and the secretary all the time in yr 5 and 6. It didn't do me any harm, educationally. I really liked it, I was bored to tears in class because I was so far ahead of the rest of the class.

I really don't think missing one day's teaching, especially if they have to make up the work, is going to damage a child's education.

Fizzy my OFSTED comment was just a mildly sarcastic guess - I don't work in education so haven't a clue. They have guidelines for everything else so why not this?
Checked with DS last night. At his school the students are given the relevant work to do inbetween their jobs and are expected to do as much of it as possible.
He did point out that for the year 7's it's also a good way of finding their way around a large busy school and familiarising themselves with the staff.

Should have probably put a next to the OFSTED bit...

Sorry, my post probably sent things a little off topic It was to highlight that pupils can benefit from a range of experiences that are not specifically classroom based.

Whilst I accept that the outcomes for some children from rural background may be poor, this really isn't the case here. The schools involved are in highly affluent areas, with results far in excess of national average and a very high proportion of pupils moving onto higher education. In fact, this may influence the LEA's stance in the first place, although I am not aware of the reasoning behind their decision.

A single day in an entire school year really isn't worth getting a frothy over.

They sent us out for a whole week of absolutely pointless 'work experience' when I was at school. I got sent to a doctors surgery, where I wrote a big letter M on ever single file and entertained the very frail old lady who lived upstairs for many hours. They were clearly just keeping me busy and out of the way. That was a whole week of lessons, and I still managed to get a decent education and everything.

DD1's school does it. They spend one day out of the entire year in year 7.
Not really something to get worked up about. She quite enjoyed it, and it did open her eyes as to how things could go in the office at school, which probably encourages the pupils to give more respect to the office people after seeing what they have to cope with.

Eastpoint it was one of many scams that ds performed in secondary, he spent his whole time dreaming up plans to disrupt every system they had in place.So free school dinners, the rewards system, the printer cap and internet access he found ways to override them all.
Ironically he supports schools now in his role in Local Government and when he called his own secondary they spoke his name in hushed tones and asked if it was the "insanity's son" I think they expected him to become a major criminal tbh but outside of school his behaviour was always impeccable.

I would also have used it as an opportunity to get onside with the admin staff. It always pays to have friends in the office, and I don't think that's a bad skill for kids to develop.

My DD did it in year 8 but I don't think it was for a whole day. I don't see a problem with it. I remember DD saying that when she did it there were not a lot of errands so she used her inititative to tidy up the stationary shelf and so on rather than just sit around doing nothing.

Having read the thread I can see the other point of view but this sits very uncomfortably with me; I just cannot see how a day in the office passing messages is a good substitute for lessons. Also, I am struggling to see what the pupil could do in the office beside the most menial of jobs given the highly sensitive and personal information held about students on the database and in the files.
Also....if they can't have a day off to visit a local museum with parents...why do they get to spend a day in the office away from lessons?

Of course an independent school would do this!
IME children at independent schools are encouraged to do a lot of stuff around school and it is often seen as beneficial by all.
This may be assisting in the office, being a subject ambassador in a younger class, taking prospective parents around the school for a visit, etc.

1 day of of how many 100s they spend at school over the years?
Really couldn't get worked up about it at all.

In ds's school they didn't sit in the office but at a desk near the entrance. They were to meet and greet visitors and show them to reception and then to run errands that were brought from the office to the desk. It was pretty much pointless I always thought tbh as reception was about 5m from entrance and signposted and any errands that needed running could have just as easily been done by the office staff.

I think it is a fab idea. I'm going to suggest it to the schools I go into that don't do it. Thanks OP.

It was pretty much pointless I always thought tbh as reception was about 5m from entrance and signposted and any errands that needed running could have just as easily been done by the office staff.

Missing the point spectacularly! Well done on that viewpoint insanity.

Not at all Funky why would visitors be impressed with two pupils sat out of lessons? I'd be wondering why they weren't in lessons rather than walking me five metres to reception. Errands consisted of passing messages in envelopes from the office to teaching staff.well seeing as they knew the school layout what exactly did they gain from it?
I wasn't worried about them missing lessons at all but if they were to miss lessons would have thought it would be for something more worthwhile.

You don't think that experiencing meeting and greeting people, showing them round, doing some basic admin is a learning experience. Interesting.

to do the job that frankly should be done by paid staff.

He has his whole life ahead of him to do shit boring jobs if he wants to.

I think OP, you are that parent everyone hates. I bet you are a joy come parents evening. Tell me, do you speak to the office staff, doing their shit jobs, like they are a piece of shit too? Your son might learn everyone isn't like mummy and that being well mannered and polite will serve him well in the future. Not all lessons can be learned at home

Not at all Funky why would visitors be impressed with two pupils sat out of lessons?

I would be very impressed if they were polite and efficient. My children did it in year 6 at lunch time and manned the phones-they all did a great job and it was so good for them.

Questions about OPs tone and attitude to office staff / admin don't really answer the point though...is this really something pupils should be doing?
And what can they actually do given the highly confidential nature of some of the information held in a school office?