To think I should not stand the cost of this plumbing mistake?

[Flossyfloof]

I have just had the bathroom refitted. The plumber gave me a catalogue from which to choose the taps. I chose the taps. Once the bath was put in, he called me upstairs to ask where I wanted the taps to go. It was clear that there was actually only one place they could fit - in the centre of the bath on the side facing into the room. This would mean hurdling them every time anyone had a shower or bath; the ones I chose were quite high and it was obvious that this would be no good at all. As he had actually opened the taps up the plumber says that the supplier will not accept them back. Several times he has shaken his head and sucked his teeth and asked if I know anyone who wants some new taps, doesn't know what we can do, am I sure I don't know anyone who wants new taps etc etc. I have pretty well ignored this.
The bathroom is finally finished. He has just asked again about the taps. As I chose them from a catalogue which he supplied I don't think that I should have to stand the cost. He didn't at any point indicate that I should we aware of any measurements, point me in the direction of one kind of tap rather than another, no qualms when I chose them.
He has just asked me what I think is a fair thing to do about buying them. I asked if I have bought them then? He answered that he doesn't know what I have done. We are both feeling very uncomfortable about the whole thing, the job will end up costing a lot more than he estimated, because of various problems which have occurred during the job. I feel that he should have been aware of the fact that some taps might not be suitable for all baths, he being the expert not me.
This man is someone who has always been reasonable, he has done decent jobs for me in the past. But I don't feel that I should stand for the cost of these taps. The sink taps can be returned (with a restocking charge) but the others can't. I have suggested that I try them on Ebay and see what happens.
So AIBU in not wanting to pay for them?

Yanbu but stop hinting around the issue and just tell him. I wouldn't have offered to put them on eBay - he can do that. Either you feel responsible or you don't, and offering to sell them makes it look like you accept responsibility iyswim.

How much money are we talking?

You chose them, they are not suitable. You pay. Sorry if it's not what you want to hear.

I am not sure how much but in the hundreds I think. I don't feel responsible at all. (So I disagree with you, Arabella, but thanks!)

How much are they? If a small amount, I'd be inclined to take it on the chin. Between you, you should have communicated better as to what would work in your bathroom. Of course you can't have anything you want.

I think YANBU. He's the professional- he should've had the sense to foresee the positioning problem well before opening up a sealed packet.

Also, do you have a contract?

You say that you can't have anything yypou want, Jack, but how would one know? I have never out in a new bathroom before and had no idea. Clearly neither did he - and it is his job.

Jump - no contract .

I don't think you should pay or do anything. He should have known what taps were suitable when he asked you to choose some, that's his job.
Don't let him bully you into sorting this out, stand firm.

Thanks all. Am just wondering if I am going to be one of those
-AIBU?
-Yes
-no I'm not!
threads.
I am interested that some people disagree.
Thanks for all your responses.
I would have felt more like taking it on the chin if he had warned me before ordering and before opening that not all taps are suitable for all baths.

Problem is, obviously he will bill me. If he bills me for them then I will have to pay.

I think the opening thing is important here, surely when he went to look at them, having not given OP any guidance at all, he should have thought hang on, will these fit OK? Why would it be the OPs responsibility to make sure the taps would be ok, any more than it was her responsibility to make sure the pipes were ok?

Its important to remember that you don't have to have any specialist knowledge of plumbing in order to engage a plumber and I find when things go wrong trades often revert to the "you should have known" cry, when in fact no - THEY should have known.

I'd wait and see if he bills you for them, you don't know that he will, and if he does then pay the bill minus the taps. Awkward as it is, its his mistake.

Of course you don't have to pay just because he bills you for them. But sort this out now so it doesn't become awkward. Don't wait for his bill.

I appear to be in the minority here, but I think YABU. As someone who has worked with a builder to replace 2 bathrooms in the past year, I'd say you made a poor choice of taps from a catalogue that probably had dozens of different styles for many different shape and size baths. I'd think it would be my job to choose the right size and shape, his to ensure they are correctly plumbed and fitted, not leaking etc.

When you pay for a plumber, you are paying for his expertise as well as his labour. He should have foreseen the problem and warned you. His problem.

I think you should pay. As you say, there was only one place the taps could have gone all along and you chose them. It must have been obvious when you looked at the catalogue that they were high, and even if you had chosen lower ones, it would still have been an awkward place. Yes, the plumber could have said something, but I bet he's had plenty of customers who make awkward choices based on appearance or design. You are expecting him to pay for your mistake.

And those who are saying he is a professional - he is not a professional, he hasn't undergone 5 years of university training with education in professional ethics, nor is part of a professional body into which he pays insurance to cover his mistakes. He is a tradesman and I would say for an individual bathroom, his duty is to follow the employer's instructions.

It was clear that there was actually only one place they could fit - in the centre of the bath on the side facing into the room.

Wait, I'm trying to picture this. The bath only has holes for taps in the middle of the long side, and he fitted the bath with this particular long side on the room side rather than the wall side? Is that basically it?

Or was it rather that they could be fitted to either long side or either short side, but due to wall space and giant taps, they simply won't fit next to a wall?

The reason I'm asking isn't to be contentious, it's just if it's the former, then this is very clearly a problem that the plumber has caused. If it's the latter, it's true that he could have said something, at the very least 'you do realize they are huge taps, don't you?' but if the catalogue did indicate they were larger than normal taps, you might have been able to put two and two together for yourself.

He had a reasonable duty of care. He didn't exercise it!

It's not that the taps don't fit - from a plumbing perspective they fit fine. It's just that it will be awkward having to climb over them when you get in the bath.

It's not a plumber's job to point out that your choices are impractical. It is his job to point out if your choice wouldn't work for a plumbing reason, eg it's the wrong sort of tap for your pipework. But if it's a practical or aesthetic issue like you have to climb over the taps, that's your choice not his.

I bet he's had plenty of customers who make awkward choices based on appearance or design. Exactly, it's the customer's job to choose appearance or design, the plumber's job is just to make sure the piping works. He's not an interior designer.

YABU - I suggest you see if the supplier will take them back with a "restocking" fee deducted, or exchange them for other taps. If not then you pay IMO.

NotOneThing He had a reasonable duty of care. He didn't exercise it!

Only if she was sueing him for damages under the law of tort, not contract.

The customer here has clearly changed her mind. The plumber should not have to pay for her change of mind.

Has he put the bath in the wrong way? Surely taps don't usually go on the outside?

The sides of the bath are so narrow that they would not be wide enough to accommodate the taps. The bath is what they call a space saver bath. It is one of those with a curved side, a P shape. I assumed that the taps would go where the old taps were, where if presume most people have their taps - at the end of the bath. In fact, I have had to have a single tap as the only place a tap could go is in the corner. So I have had to choose a completely different style of tap.
When I say there was only one place the taps could go, I mean that there was only one area of space which was wide enough to get these taps in and usable. Although I think the taps are quite high this would not have been an issue if the ends of the bath had been wide enough. Does this make sense?
There were no holes in the bath for taps to go into, they had to be drilled.
When I looked again at the catalogue, there were in fact only about 5 examples of the single tap which were possibilities.
I am very cross, yes, that he opened them. I believe at had he just opened the cardboard box it would have been Okay. Because he opened the plastic bag they were in they will not take them back.

Hi Flossy. Notonething and Coughle are right. YOU are the customer. And YOU are always right.

I'm a tradesman. The view I take is that it's my job to leave the customer happy, and try to foresee any problems. Otherwise, what's the point in employing me?

What I think your plumber should have done was consider where your choice of tap would fit on your bath. It sounds like he's not done this, realised too late that there's only one spot they'd fit in, and thought "shit, she won't like this, I'd better open the packet so I'm not down a couple of hundred...". You don't have to be a rocket scientist to realise that 9/10 people are not going to want to step over their taps to get into a bath.

What he should have done, upon realising, was tell you straight away then discuss how to go forward. He may have been thinking about time taken to order new taps, he has other jobs to do, best to get this one wrapped up, etc. I'm speculating, but that's my guess.

Remember, you haven't bought the taps. He has. And he shouldn't be invoicing you until the job is finished and you're happy with it. Whatever you do, do not hand over any money until both these conditions are met. Money is leverage with tradesmen.

Plumbers make a lot of money, and I might argue rightly so, as it takes time to train and is a highly skilled job. But if you feel that skill isn't being exercised, you need to be business-like about it. I have lots of customers I like, and get on well with, but at the end of the day I have to remind myself they are just that. They aren't my friends, although we may have a friendly relationship. They're paying me to do a job, and that's exactly where your leverage comes from.

To be blunt, the one thing a tradesman needs to be thinking is, "what can go wrong with this job, and how can I prevent that?". From your OP, it does sound like he's not done this. And your question is, "Am I not paying you to foresee these problems?".

I bet he's had plenty of customers who make awkward choices based on appearance or design. Exactly, it's the customer's job to choose appearance or design, the plumber's job is just to make sure the piping works. He's not an interior designer.

No, he isn't. But plumbers undergo - off the top of my head - about three years training. Perfectly reasonable to expect him to use his brain and say, "okay, you want these taps, but are you happy they'll only fit in one place?". It is the tradesman's job to use his experience to bridge the gap between what the customer wants and what is actually possible.