to think everyone should retire at 60 and the state pension should be a livable amount

[pollyis]

Hi,

I was one of the lucky ones that got to retire at 60, but now this this being raised to 66. I think this is very unfair and downright wrong. If anything it should be lowered for both men and woman so they can spend their last few years with some hard earned rest.

Also the amount is much lower than countries like France and Germany. My pension is 146 pounds a week. Hardly a decent amount and I'm expected to live off this for another 20-30 years!

I think we should all support each other to get the age lowered and increase the amount to the same as Germany. Sok about 320 a week per pensioner. Do you agree?

Polly

I thought employers already employed older people who are able to carry out the work required if there is no one younger available.

Is this not the case?

I think it totally scandalous that the NI paid by someone is never invested for their future state pension, as it would be in the private sector

yanbu but sadly it is unaffordable. I have a sister on jsa of 70 per week who turned 60 this year. 10 years previously she would have retired by now on 113 ish per week. She is the age that has been especially screwed as they moved the goal post again recently. Her only concession is being able to work for 16 hours and claim tax credits but guess what she would be no better off as would have to pay rent.
o and she would have a free bus pass instead of paying maybe10 per werk out of 70 to sign on and job search.

o and she wouldn't have to pay council tax if retired either.

totally unaffordable - when the 60 age was introduced life expectancy was shorter - the state can't support you for 30+ years

YANBU to want it - wouldn't we all :(

YAB sooooo U

When the pension age was set at 60, many years ago, average life expectancy was 64.

Average life expectancy is now nearly 80.

We cannot afford to fund 20 year retirements. The pension was never intended to do that. It was intended to fund a 5 year retirement.

This is one of the biggest reasons our country's finances are creaking at the seams. We have committed to paying out for 20 year retirements, but have never invested to ensure we could do this. So today's taxes have to cover this somehow. The idea of increasing this burden is extraordinary and very U.

What should happen is the opposite - state/state employee pension age should go up (for future retirees that is - of course it would be unfair to do this to current retirees with no notice). Future retirees should be encouraged to save into their own pensions if they want a long retirement.

Annoying - I agree - either they should invest NI towards future state pensions, or they should come clean and admit it's basically just another form of income tax.

As a 27 year old, who currently has to work til 68 (and I can't see that not increasing in the next 41 years), I think you're being ridiculous.

You're already enjoying a far better retirement than I will. Pensioners receive double per week what those on JSA get. It's not a fortune, but it's a damn sight more than any other group. And that's assuming no private pension.

University educated boomers will have worked (assuming full employment and an average age of death) for less than half of their lives. This is patently unsustainable and rather than whinging maybe they should be appreciative of the fact that they're enjoying an unprecedented level of support.

And as for it being easier to buy a house now, please don't make me laugh.

When the women's retirement age was set at sixty, essentially no women worked sufficient contributing years to get a state pension, and those that did paid the reduced married women's stamp. By setting the age at about what was (in the 1920s) the typical age offset between men and their wives, it meant that men typically became eligible for the married man's pension as soon as they retired. As life expectancies were in the low seventies, what happened was people got the married man's pension for about five years, and then a widow's pension for a few more.

Today, more and more women are retiring with full pensions in their own name, and have a life expectancy of about 88.

UK population pyramid:

www.ons.gov.uk/ons/interactive/uk-population-pyramid---dvc1/index.html

There are about 12m people getting state pensions, and it currently costs about £100bn per year. Paying them £320 per week would cost about £200bn (I'll be generous and assume that you're stopping things like winter fuel payment in your new scheme). So you need to find another £100bn.

For comparison, the entire NHS budget is about £110bn, income tax brings in about £150bn and NI brings in about £110bn.

I once had a stand up row at a Labour Party meeting with a guy who claimed we could pay all pensioners £300 a week by not fighting "any more illegal wars" plus the usual rant about nuclear weapons.. I pointed out that the entire UK defence budget is only about £35bn, so if we closed down the entire military (I mean, the entire military, every ship, every plane, every soldier) his scheme would run out of money by about April. That made me a warmonger, apparently (no, me neither).

So, we could pay massively raised pensions by closing down the NHS. Another scheme would be doubling national insurance or nearly doubling income tax (say, basic rate 40%, higher rate 75%, something like that). Or we could close down the entire military and keep about a third of the NHS (say, close all GPs, all regional hospitals, keep a handful in big cities).

Essentially, with a working population of about 20m, you'd need to find a way to get £5000 out of each and every person.

Oh, and it's going to get a lot more expensive over the next twenty years.

www.theguardian.com/money/2013/dec/10/state-pensions-age-68

Agree entirely Ottilie

OP you and my ILs are living in cloud cuckoo land. Why not take a bit of responsibility for yourself in your dotage and save in a private pension if you want to retire early with a comfortable standard of living?

I can't ever imagine our generation and the generation below being able to retire. Governments will keep moving the goal posts constantly on this. My parents in law always say "yes, but it's fair as we're all living longer". I'm not convinced this will be true for too much longer, as the longer and harder people work, the more stress they will be under. Housing is much less affordable, people are living in worse conditions in some cases than the current generation of pensioners. My PIL retired at 50 and are in excellent health. They travel around the world and are having a great life. I'm sure they've worked hard for it, but they will live longer than the current generation of workers who will not get these benefits and have less money and absolutely no hope of a decent retirement.

Everyone is still free to retire at 60 if they have saved enough money in their pension pot.

But YABU to expect the youngsters (the ones who are still working) to pay for the current older population to live at their expense when the money would have all gone by the time those taxpayers get to a similar age.

Annoying Hardly scandalous. National Insurance started paying out pensions/NHS/benefits from the time it was introduced - there is nothing to invest, as current NI payments have always been used to pay current pensions/NHS/benefits.

This isn't a secret.

It wouldn't work financially but I can see your point. So many unemployed young people who would love to work, and so many older ones hanging on to jobs they could manage without. But that is very simplistic I know.

I think it totally scandalous that the NI paid by someone is never invested for their future state pension, as it would be in the private sector

The National Insurance scheme as we know it was introduced in 1946. So are you saying that we shouldn't have started paying out full pensions until people had worked for 40 years while paying NI, so 1986? Nice: what were you suggesting people who retired before 1986 should have been paid?

NI is a tax. There has never been any pretence it was anything else.

IVe had a pension since I was 18. I put away a small amount each month, about twice my monthly mobile bill, but it has meant that I've kept it going no matter how tight things have been. It is slowly but surely growing. I advise others to start saving as young as possible!

Its too much money to be covered by current taxes.

I do agree the amount should be higher and linked to NI and tax. The more paid in the more the person should get. Theses that don't pay much in would get the bare basic so another incentive to contribute whilst they can work.

I'm 54 and would love to retire at 60

After all , that's what I expected when I started to work

Not everyone expects to live for another 20 - 30 years , my mum died at 61 and MIL at 62 , they definetely didn't get their money's worth

duhg snap .

Taxes at the top end are going to have to increase. Either that or we end up living in a tiered, dystopic society that looks like a cross between the Khayelitsha slum and Blade Runner.

retirement and pensions were a short term idea that has had its day
within 50 years they will be regarded as a temporary anachronism that made a lot of young people very poor

It will be shite by the time people in my generation- people in working poverty and the "underclass" where generations haven't made contributions to the pot- get to retire. Tbh in the future I think far more people will be forced to work till they drop.

This.

Polly £146 is pretty good when the basic State pension is £113.10. I assume you haven't got a workplace pension and get some kind of top up, or does the £146 include your work pension?

it's funny this question is being asked of people who will likely receive far less far later.

me thinks sympathy will be low.

This rings a bell... did you write a goady post along these lines about a week ago, OP, that was eventually deleted by MNHQ? It was from a retired teacher whinging about 'only' having 2 foreign holidays a year, owning 'only' a 3-bed semi in London and having a 3 year old car while 'struggling' to get by on the state pension.

Are you trying the same tack again under a different name? If so, then please go and find something better to do with your amply provided for free time...