To not take my DCs for their flu vaccination?

[NickAngel]

I've been sent a letter inviting us to attend an appointment at the surgery for my DCs to have the flu vaccine.
They don't have any existing medical conditions and are both healthy.
Am I BU to decline the appointment?
Do they really need it?

My son was very ill after the nasal spray last year, so no, not going this year.

I'm a practice nurse too administering this. I have just declined my DC to have it. I have had flu and know how bad it is, but they are fit healthy boys and I can't bring myself to vaccinate year after year them primarily to protect the more vulnerable and elderly, very many of who refuse to have it themselves ( and there are many!)

Its beig given to children because not only can they be badly affected by flu, they are also the biggest carriers and reducing how many of them get even mild flu symptoms can reduce spread to others who either cant be vaccinated (like me this year as im having a bone marrow transplant) or who the vaccine doesnt work as well.
Its herd immunity like measles.

My children will have the injectable because otherwise they have to stay away from me for 2 weeks as my immune system is so low. I hope it works for them and I hope the rest of their class get their nasal ones too so we can all stay safer.

So the only two medical professionals on this thread so far are refusing it for their own, says a lot.

Surely the reason for going for the nasal spray is that more parents will agree to it so more DC will be covered?

Flu vaccine is completely unnecessery

Sharon, I live in Essex. My DDs are primary aged.

It does say a lot ladygingina. But I am not sure what.

Great news about the nasal vaccine and I'm delighted they're making it so available, however concerns from US experience where they started this 2 years ago bear comment. The nasal vaccine is an attenuated(weakened) strain which works fine as a vaccine. The side issue is that kids can then shed the live virus particles for up to 3 wks afterwards, like babies can with the polio vaccine. This means take sensible precautions if you have anyone in your home/in close contact with your child who isn't vaccinated, especially those who are for whatever reason, considered vulnerable.

nurses are often appallingly bad at following health advice so i wouldn't read too much into that

(awaits the flames)

Not taking the immunization of the predicted strains of the year, because you still might get some other strain makes no sense to me. You would like to risk getting a second strain after the first has weakened you? Have you parented a household through 2 successive rounds of flu?

One winter of that was enough. Ruined Christmas, and truthfully led to some regretted major household decisions taken in the following weeks. Later, we realised all those weeks of misery clouded our judgement and it took 5 years to undo it, and undoing might never have happened.

nHS Scotland is immunising all primary aged children I think. At least through P3 with the nasal vaccine at school, unless you opt out. Our son is definitely in, and if my dh and I can get it at the GP, we will.

My son was offered it at school, I declined like I did with the swine flu vax. He was very ill after his MMR, so really dont want to do it.

DS1 had the nasal one last year, and I would have done it again this year but the only time they'll do it is at their flu clinic, and that flu clinic is during school hours.

I can't imagine their uptake is going to be great this year.

I declined, it's not selfish to not want another vaccine. I'm 38 I've never had flu. ( touches wood)

It has not been researched enough for my liking.

Does anyone know why it's only 2-4 year olds being offered it? DD will be 2 in January but I guess she will miss out?

Plenty of healthy people get flu, being healthy doesn't stop these things.

Ladygingina.
Medical professional here not refusing it for my own and they had it last year as soon as it was available.

Noblegiraffe
Its because there isnt enough vaccine to do everyone (manufacturers cant make enough in the time) so the highest risk, highest carriers are done and the plan is that will also help protect older and younger children

I live in one of the areas taking part in the trials for the nasal flu vaccine for secondary school children in years 7 and 8.

I believe the aim is to reduce the spread of flu, as much as protecting those children. I expect this is also a factor in the immunisation of 2 to 4 year-olds.

I have asthma and always get the annual flu jab at my GP surgery and have never had the flu since. But, there are many other people .with serious medical conditions, who are unable to have the vaccine and are at serious risk, should they come into contact with the flu virus.

So, I fully support the initiative to vaccinate children to reduce the spread of what can be a killer disease.

I've declined, for myself as nhs staff and my children.
Nurses are not bad at taking advice, but are taught to seek a solid evidence base for everything they do. And not take the NHS press as gospel.

The evidence for herd immunity for diseases such as polio and TB are well documented, in unbiased reports taken over several decades with thousands if not millions of participants.
The evidence base for flu vaccination is near non existent.
onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD004879.pub4

In order for herd immunity to work a larger percentage of the population need to be vaccinated than unvaccinated. The nhs aren't funding vaccination for all therefore should not be offering vaccines to low risk adults and children. But vaccination is expensive. Which is why the majority of research undertaken by pharmaceutical companies is bias.

The effectiveness of the nasal vaccine is reported to be 35-50% in children over 2years, dependent on which research you read. So half of the children who will receive the nasal vaccine will remain susceptible, whilst simultaneously gaining the ability to spread the flu, as it is a modified, not a 'dead' vaccine.
There is also research that shows that the flu jab effects anti coagulation therapy, which is a big issue for a lot of patients in the vaccine target group.

And personally, shit happens. Vaccinated or not, there is going to be a strain of flu that kills someone. That is what viruses do, and sometimes it's like crossing the road-you might just be unlucky.

Mine are all having it, and so am I (although I'm paying for mine, at Boots ).

I'm a great believer in vaccination, and I was pretty thrilled to find we are in an area where the children can have the vaccination for free.

I had been hunting down clinics who offered the vaccination to children, but they are like hen's teeth, and charge ££.

The vaccine contains live forms of the flu viruses that were circulating in 2009 (H1N1 Swine Flu), 2011 (H3N2 Bird Flu) and 2012 (BMassachusetts2) and because it is live and a nasal spray, it sheds, which means it can infect unvaccinated people around the recently vaccinated for up to two weeks. And as the wild flu viruses evolve each year, the vaccines cannot ever protect against this years strain.

Are we not simply recirculating old flu viruses in addition to the ever evolving wild viruses and would our efforts be better spent boosting our natural immune responses so these viruses can be allowed to die off?

Thanks- I'm reluctant as I had a bad reaction to the vaccine last year and I wouldn't want to be responsible for my two going through that. I'm also feeling that if it 'sheds' and the DCs go off to parties then half term, on a flight, they may actually spread it unwittingly.

I've just had a brief look, I feel really ignorant- I hadn't realised the vaccine was propagated. I'd just really thought about how they grew it!

There aren't actually that many medical conditions where the flu vaccine is contra-indicated ( some yes). I would argue from my experience there are many more vulnerable/elderly who should have it themselves but refuse. Have started vaccinating this month at work, approx 30% of those adults eligible have declined for no reason other than that just didn't want it.