...to be so angry and upset by this unfair school admissions policy?

[SchoolFury]

(Have namechanged as this is quite identifiable)

My DD just turned 4 in September, so is due to start Reception next year. Since Jan this year she has been at a preschool (nursery) which is part of a primary school.

It is our nearest school, and the only one for which we are in the 'priority area'. We actually moved to this flat in 2013 in large part because we loved the school so much

It's a non-denominational, community state primary school. We are in a part of London with a lot of faith schools (Jewish, Catholic, CofE) and we are a mixed Jewish/Christian secular family, so faith schools not for us. It's also got an Ofsted '1' (outstanding) in last inspection, though that is less important than the wonderful atmosphere, the sense of community and the fact that my daughter is really thriving in the preschool.

Under normal admissions rules, my daughter would be very likely to get a place there for Reception based on distance - we live less than 0.2 miles from the school. HOWEVER, last year the school decided to take a 'bulge' class, i.e. take 60 pupils in reception instead of 30. They took from a much wider area - up to 0.5 miles from the school - usually the limit is less than 0.3.

This means that siblings of those in the 'bulge' class will get offered places next year ahead of my daughter, and others in her nursery class who live closer, but do not have siblings at the school. I know personally of two families with one child in current reception, with a sibling a year younger, who will therefore get offered places ahead of my daughter even though they live much further away.

I am really distressed by this. The only other nearby school is a failing school (Ofsted rating 3) - not the end of the world, but we are not even in the priority area for it (very near, but wrong side of the road) so we may not even get a place there . And my daughter is so happy in preschool and has lots of good friends and good relationships with the teachers.

If my daughter had been a week older she would have started reception this year and would have got a place for definite. As it is, she almost certainly won't get a place, instead children living much further away will get priority for no reason other than the 'bulge' class taken this year. I have been told there is no chance of them taking another bulge class this year - so what's the point?

AIBU to feel really upset, resentful towards those who have got in this year, and most of all angry with the school for making this decision, which seems really short sighted and unfair on children in subsequent years?

Despite our stress about getting in, I totally support the sibling priority. The only people who would possibly suggest with that would be people with one child. Many with one go on to have two, and I would bet you that those same parents who had an issue with it the first time around, were quite satisfied with it the second time around.

Only one child in DS's class has a sibling in the year below.
Five have sibling 2 years below.
None have sibling 1 year above.
Three have a sibling 2 years above.

The only people who would possibly suggest with that would be people with one child

Yup. I don't see why my kid should go to the back of the queue just because he is an only child.

Honestly, most primaries are fine. Save your cares for secondary when it really matters.

And ofsted grade '3' is not a failing school. It's what used to be called 'satisfactory' until v recently. They will be under major pressure to up their game.

ArcheryAnnie what you say is true: sibling-first is not good for firsts or lones. And as the father of one, and the younger brother by seven years, I have been on that side of the fence twice.

But from a practical point it is better to reduce school-running and take the stress off parents, and I repeat that whatever policy you choose somebody is going to be unhappy.

Archery You might have a point if he did go to the back of the queue, but he doesn't.

But from a practical point it is better to reduce school-running and take the stress off parents, and I repeat that whatever policy you choose somebody is going to be unhappy.

The thing that would most reduce school-running in London, at least, would be the abolishment of state faith schools, as currently the city in the morning is criss-crossed by thousands of parents ferrying their children to non-local schools because of this. And the same at 3 pm. It's ludicrous.

(And I'm fed up of being the parent of the poor kid that is on the unhappy end of almost every "sensible" school policy.)

Archery state faith schools are not going to be abolished whoever is in government.

In any event if you want to reduce school-running the logical answer is distance-priority. But consider this:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-29505580

Distance first is not necessarily good news either, is it?

A good way to balance the distance thing would be a wider local area within which places were allocated by random ballot, Andrewofgg, thus keeping the practicality of local schools but buggering up the whole buying-into-tiny-cachement thing. But some degree of locality is still important, which is why I'm so angry my son was refused entrance to the state primary a few yards from my front door, and had to walk into another bloody borough to go to school, because it's totes fine to discriminate against tiny children on the basis of their parents' faith.

Archery That might work in London and the big cities, although even then sibling-preference would still save a lot of logistical problems for parents.

I don't usually point out typos because I can usually see what was intended, but I can't decipher totes and while I am sure that is my fault, can you please tell me what you intended to type? Thanks.

Archery having a second child would make no difference to which school your first child was accepted into would it?

OP, my two dc go to an OFSTED grade 3 (requires improvement) school and its bloody brilliant. It was rated Good when ds1 started, was downgraded shortly afterwards and has remained grade 3 ever since. It used to bother me but not any more and now it has a big waiting list as people prefer it to the other local school that retains its 'Good' rating. Strange, but true.

People keep saying that its rare to have a one year age gap but its larger than that as the ops dd is septmeber born. Plus there was a bulge class in 2011!

Barbarian that's good to know. In this case it's the 'feeling' of the school which I like so much, it's won awards and has great links with arts organisations, etc., it's just a really positive, energetic atmosphere.

We're going on a tour of the other nearby school next month so I am hoping to be pleasantly surprised. We're not even in the priority area for that one (even though it's almost opposite the other school) but I will be OK if my daughter gets a place there - disappointed but OK. What would be really crap would be not getting into either of schools which are 0.2 miles away and having to go miles away.

Andrew 'totes' is not a misspelling, it's slang for 'totally', as in 'totes amazeballs'

Enjoyingmycoffee I have a younger child too but I would be prepared for him to be judged 'fairly' by the same criteria as all other local children, regardless of his older siblings.

the current system means you have to live in the 'right' place for just a short time and that's it, you have a place at the school for every child you have or might have in the future - even ones not conceived yet, as long as you don't leave a seven-year gap!

I'm sorry your worrying over this, school admissions can be a horribly stressful experience. However I think it's unreasonable and futile to be angry towards the families who had children admitted in the bulge year, those children needed school places. 18 -22 siblings per year seems awfully high, are you sure that's right? If I were you I think I'd have a friendly word with the school secretary, they are usually on the ball about how many siblings they are expecting in any one year, that and have a chat to your DD's nursery key worker as most kids, in our area at least, do attend the linked nursery and so they'll have a good idea how many have older siblings at the school too. Hopefully this will help you to be better informed and maybe reassured, April is a long time off and you may have months of unnecessary worry ahead of you.

ILovePud thanks for your kind message. You are absolutely right that it's futile to be angry towards other families. And April is a long way away, I need to get on with life so I'm going to try to look round as many other schools as possible, and to concentrate on other things.

Unfortunately the number of siblings is definitely right - on the local council's website you can download info on each school for the past few years, that shows

• number of places available at each school
• number of applications
• number of siblings offered places
• if all 'priority area' children got places/if not, the furthest distance
• if children outside priority area got places, the furthest distance

I've looked at the info back to 2012 for this school. The lowest number of siblings was 18 and highest was 22.

I did speak to the school secretary - she was kind but not massively encouraging.

Gosh those numbers are high, you've obviously researched this quite thoroughly, sorry if you'd mentioned this further up the thread. It sounds like your doing the right things in terms of looking at other options but fingers crossed she still gets in.

Those sibling numbers are not unusual for a 30 intake.

Annie I can see you feel let down by the system but I think its totes an exaggeration to claim the city is criss-crossed by thousands of parents ferrying their children to non-local schools.

Faith schools are still prioritising children in their catchment, and even some of them aren't getting places. And in London there are usually loads of schools nearby, more than you can choose as preferences.

If people are criss crossing, I don't think its for state schools.

I think what's really bad is the situation Betty described, where the only school for miles is a faith school and the locals can't get in. That's clearly not London.

do some research before you ask for a bulge. We went round one school which had been forced to take a very late (July) bulge. They had the classroom space, but are struggling with playground and hall space - they have one hall in which to have all assemblies, lunches and indoor PE, and one playground that was bursting at the seams. The school was outstanding rated (and we felt it really was outstanding) but the cramped playground space was a big negative.

those sibling places sound like most round our way. There was one school a few years back that had more siblings than places (33 to 30 places)! They now have a 2 form entry, unsurprisingly.

I support sibling priority though I have just the one. But I do think something like a control on distance would be no bad thing. I understand they are consulting on this in Wandsworth.

We benefitted from a bulge year, and many parents were concerned about the likely impact on catchment given sibling numbers.

Since that one off bulge, every year has had a bulge (Lambeth s desperate), and so that problem has not yet be one an issue.

Gosh - I hadn't even thought of the sibling implications of the bulge classes. My understanding was that local authorities inflicted bulge classes on schools.
I think that at 0.2 miles you'll still get in. Average for north london is around 0.6.

And in London there are usually loads of schools nearby, more than you can choose as preferences.

Do you live in London? This really really isn't the case. Did you miss my post where i said my DS wasn't admitted to the (faith) primary a few yards from my front door, and had to walk into another borough every morning to go to school? The only reason we didn't drive (the walk took 40 mins) is that I don't have a car. We became friends with some of the mums and kids we passed every day for six years, walking equal distances in the opposite direction. This is ludicrous.

I think what's really bad is the situation Betty described, where the only school for miles is a faith school and the locals can't get in. That's clearly not London.

For secondary, until recently there were just four state schools here, three of which were exclusively Catholic, and one non-denominational (and massively oversubscribed), so children of Catholic parents got 4 x the choice that others did (not that there's any "choice" when there's only one option, and that's not guaranteed). There's now a fifth school which is 50% faith places and 50% community. What were you saying about London again?

If the LA is habitually having to put bulge classes in this school, are there any plans for permanent expansion? It could be worth checking.

"In London there are usually loads of schools nearby, more than you can choose as preferences."

Ha! We have three schools very close. Two of them are faith schools and we wouldn't get in. Which leaves a grand total of one, and we're right on the cusp of the distance non-siblings are admitted from. If children from non-religious families living where we are don't get in there then they'll usually be allotted a place somewhere miles away on the other side of the borough (there are plenty of other "nearby" schools, within easy walking distance, but we definitely live too far away to get a place at any of those.

Bear in mind that if a bulge class is being created, more-or-less by definition ALL schools in the borough are oversubscribed. The really popular schools end up with effective catchment distances of 200m or so (less in some cases). The good schools might have effective catchments up to around 500m. Yes, there can be loads of schools "nearby", as people would normally understand the term "nearby", but it doesn't mean that they are close enough for children to get into them.