To think there are good arguments for an urban fox cull

[OwlCapone]

Firstly, I'm not actually suggesting there should be one and I wouldn't actively support one because I don't actually like the idea of killing them.

However, I am fed up with the amount of fox poo (one on the drive yesterday and one on the front doorstep this morning and it's like an obstacle course on the walk to school in the morning) and the area around my doors smells rank from fox urine too.

Also the damn things keep destroying my garden fence so that I can never let my dog our off the lead as he is like bloody houdini and can go missing for hours. (Ther is a chance it's being destroyed by badgers, to be fair)

The problem seem to have got far, far worse recently. Why is the urban fox population so strong now?

There are probably good theoretical arguments for that too

There probably are. I think we, as a species, are probably the most harmful to the planet!

I killed spiders when I was younger, but I haven't for at least 3-4 years now, come to think of it. Luckily our house isn't very spider-y.

I've just remembered I'm meant to be packing for DD to go on Brownie camp tonight. Which means I first have to wash fox poo off her new trainers.

At work we have an issue with feral cats. Every so often a vet rounds them up. Kittens get homed and adults get castrated and returned to keep down numbers. Something similar maybe?

They do keep down rats and rabbits. There are 35 million wild rabbits in this country that also live in sub-urban and rural areas. We'd be totally over run without the foxes, not to mention the cost from things like crop damage.

Unless significant proportions of a population are removed (logistical nightmare) culling is ineffective as other foxes just move in. You only have to look at feral dog culls in other parts of the world to see how useless this approach is. There are multiple reasons why urban fixes are more prevalent but easy access to food is one reason. Banff in Canada is right in the middle if bear country but bears are pretty much never seen in town as all garbage is in bear proof bins and apple tress etc are not allowed. The attitude is that if we remove habitat from the animals for building it's up to us to be responsible for not encouraging animals in antisocial behaviour.

Regulation of fox-feeders and better litter control would go a long way to addressing the issue

If we looked after our waste better so stopped feeding them they would naturally drop in numbers. Culling would not help, those left would breed better (even more food so even the weaklings would survive) and more would move in from the countryside.

There's no way I could even think culling an animal because of poo and wee is a good idea! Shall we start on the birds next?!

Foxes carry toxocara canis. Dogs and cats can carry it as well, but worming of pets eliminates it, where as it is rife in wild fox populations. This means fox poo is more harmful to health than dog poo. Pregnant women in particular are vulnerable to it.

The idea that there are more foxes in urban areas because there are now houses in former fox areas is nonsense!
There are more foxes in urban areas because they have a plentiful food supply. Food waste from bins, litter outside chicken shops, idiots people feeding them in their gardens - it all helps sustain a population that wouldn't otherwise be able to live in such high density if they were relying on natural food sources. And because urban foxes are so well fed, they are also able to sustain bigger litters of cubs, who in turn stay 'locally' because they don't need to wander too far away to find a food source, as would happen in a rural setting, and then have more of their own litters. Repeat ad infinitum until the free all-you-can-eat foxy buffet is curbed.

I'm in favour of a cull, but their cute faces and fluffy tails mean they have a lot of support amongst people who wouldn't hesitate for a moment to call for the police to seize and destroy a staffie that was wandering around their park or streets, crapping in the street and posing a potential danger to their children. Even when foxes have actually attacked children, the amount of people trying to justify what could have happened to provoke it is mind-boggling. Dog attacks never get the same response - just lots of people reminding us that dogs are unpredictable animals who can't be trusted and shouldn't be around children

No i would not support a cull.

But culling won't work. What has been shown to work in other populations is food control (take some responsibility humans ) and potentially contraception/sterilisation (expensive)

The government just spent £4000 per badger on last years cull which was scientifically demonstrated to be ineffective and inhumane. Do you really want to let them lose in your back yards?

They've started the badger cull again, fuck knows why. Especially when the welsh pilot of vaccinating has been much more effective and cheaper.

YABU

There is far more waste food about than there used to be, and food recycling containers aren't always secure.

Foxes will always come to where there is food for them. A single cull wouldn't be sufficient - it would have to be continuous, for ever.

Yup, culling foxes won't work, unless you intend to eliminate the species completely.

If we weren't such filthy feckers, there would be far fewer foxes (and rats). If you remember secondary school biology, there population is as high as their habitat can sustain. Cull a few foxes and more will move in. Drastically reduce their food supply, and there will be a dramatic decrease in population.

What gives us the right to decide another species is annoying us, and therefore should be killed? They have as much right to be here as we do, and are less harmful to the environment than us as well.

I have a distinct feeling you would not be sharing this same sentiment to a rat infestation in your house.

An urban fox has no predators, any animal (including humans) that has no predator will eventually be culled naturally though disease and famine when they over populate and use up all the available resources. Starving and desperate animals are dangerous animals. It would be kinder to trap them and either euthanize them or release them in the country side.

But right now as it stands, the foxes aren't particularly over populated. It would be best to just take measures to keep the population under control. With feral cats here in the US we do a catch and release, where we catch them, neuter them, and the release them. Maybe you could do the same thing with foxes? Their anatomy isn't much different from a cat or dog's. That way the population stays under control and eventually it'll shrink as less of them are having babies.

An urban fox has no predators

Wrong. A very large number are killed on the roads. It's doesn't reduce the population pf course, but it is a significant predation.

I think urban foxes are a problem. We have just moved and the lady who we bought the house from, apparently fed the foxes, so the neighbours said. Its carnage here! You cannot leave ANYTHING out in the garden - we've lost a pair of crocs, gardening gloves, toys. If they manage to knock the recycling over they rummage through that. They crap everywhere. Yesterday I scooped up 4 poos in the front of the house and in the back - I can't let my kids into the garden until I have done a poo patrol because if they gush their feet into it the stuff is a stinky nightmare. Today I have scooped 2. They make loads of noise at night and dig up the garden. I would like some form of population control, even if it is huge fines for the morons who leave food out for them and a capture and neuter programme. I doubt they go near any rats, as suggested upthread, as they are too full from all the rubbish left out!

The urban foxes round our way are pretty aggressive, fighting with the cats, pooing all over the lawn, digging holes in the flower beds, tipping over bins as well as chasing small dogs along the pavement. I once saw it suggested we bring back fox hunting to London using Boris Bikes and lacrosse nets

www.foxproject.org.uk/deterrence/

One thing that I have learned is that cooked chicken bones clearly aren't as lethal as the RSPCA dog owner's manual would have you believe, otherwise my local area would have zero foxes, as opposed to a couple blatantly shagging on my car roof last night .

Wrong. A very large number are killed on the roads. It's doesn't reduce the population pf course, but it is a significant predation.

Predator: an animal that lives by killing and eating other animals : an animal that preys on other animals.

A car is not a predator, it is a machine. It is not preying on foxes it is simply killing them based on (bad) luck on being in the right place at the right time.

Foxes have no predators, and considering that it's illegal to kill foxes, you can't count humans as predators either.

It's not illegal to kill foxes www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2556012/A-pest-control-expert-camps-clients-bedrooms-cover-darkness-high-powered-air-rifle-claims-Britains-URBAN-fox-hunter.html However as with any wildlife it needs to be done within the law (humanely, not with hounds etc) And it's also futile as discussed up thread m.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-24563919

Every Monday we put our bins out.
There's a road nearby that their rubbish gets picked about 7-40.
So many of these households put their bins out the day before (I've driven down that road at 6pm on a Sunday and yes, there they are)

The foxes have a field day, the bags are shredded, dozens of them.

So YY to fines for bins going out excessively early
Fines for feeding them
And cull the mangey one.

(And yes I AM a vegetarian. I also have DC that I don't want to be walking in fox shit . And guinea-pigs that I don't want to be disemboweled )

You think it's ok to kill animals so that your dog (just another animal) can go off their lead
If you support killing animals you shouldn't have one in your house.

Fox poo carries lungworm, fatal to dogs.

itsbetterthanabox perhaps you might want to read my OP properly.