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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think the state pension 145ish isn't a pittance but JSA at 75ish is

59 replies

ladygingina · 03/10/2014 08:57

I commonly hear that the minimum state pension is a pittance from people. If that really is, then what does that make JSA that is almost half the rate?

OP posts:
Spidertracker · 03/10/2014 11:12

Back in the early 2000s DH and I were unemployed for a short time, around 6 months. We lived rent free in a friends flat while he lived elsewhere. I wasn't entitled to any money and we were given £52 a fortnight in DHs name. (I am sure it was a fortnight) we couldn't afford to heat the flat or have lights on. We used electricity for the fridge, kettle and microwave. And lived on baked potatoes and beans. I used to wash our clothes in the bath when we had bathed as we couldn't afford to put the emersion on twice.
That was before the cost of living skyrocketed. Knowing how we lived then I cannot comprehend how people are expected to have a decent standard of living on JSA as it stands now

Hatespiders · 03/10/2014 11:12

Many pensioners do a great deal of voluntary work. In fact, lots of organisations couldn't function without their input. If the older folk were forced back into work, many if not all of these societies would founder completely.

There are long lists of job vacancies in our area which jobseekers could do, but they don't go for them. That's probably why European migrant workers come over to get employment. They're willing to work, no matter what type of job.

I have worked all my life and paid full contributions. I'm entitled to my pension thank you.

Mrsdavidcaruso · 03/10/2014 11:12

Yes laurie hence my post about my parents paying for the parents, grandparents and even great grandparents pensions of todays young people in their time, why is it ridiculous to ask a young working person to pay for my dads pension when he has already paid for their relatives pensions and don't forget a lot of HIS pension is made up of extra NI contributions that HE paid in for years even when he couldnt afford it so he has paid for some of his own pension

ElephantsNeverForgive · 03/10/2014 11:14

JSA is utterly useless to people round here.

The lovely, but not very bright, lad next door either runs a car and doesn't eat or eats and doesn't run his car.

No car, no way of getting to interviews (3 mile walk and ridiculous bus fares to get to job centre).

No car no way of keeping job if he does get one.

No way can he aford to rent a flat, so he's stuck living with family in the middle if no where.

LarrytheCucumber · 03/10/2014 11:14

The £145 is the predicted flat rate pension which has yet to be introduced.
The current basic is £113.10 Yes it is more than JSA but if you had been paying into it for your whole working life you wouldn't see it as untold riches.

Viviennemary · 03/10/2014 11:14

This SAHM claiming jobseekers allowance must have worked in the qualifying year. And then it will be contribution based and will only last six months. She won't get the means tested one unless she is saying she doesn't have a husband earning £100K. People solely dependent on the State pension will qualify for extra help if they don't have savings over a certain amount. But I agree that a lot of people are annoyed that they will not be entitled to the SP until they are much older than the current pensioners.

LarrytheCucumber · 03/10/2014 11:30

RiverTam the excuse for not means testing State pensions is that it would cost too much in administration. In reality there would be an outcry from people who have paid into the system for many years. It is impossible to tell at the start of a person's working life whether they will end up a HR tax payer or not. And as HR tax payers they have paid a lot to society as a whole.

Ginocchio · 03/10/2014 12:13

I disagree with the "Ah, but they've paid in their whole life" argument. The whole point of a tax and benefit system is that is that the tax should be progressive to match to ability to pay, and the benefit should be based on need.

Otherwise we could start arguing that people can get rebates for not using NHS services, or for sending their children to private school - after all, if they've paid into the system, why shouldn't they also get something out?

The big problem is that pension provision has never been properly budgeted for - successive governments have dipped into the pension pot, on the assumption that continuing population growth will ensure that the cost can be paid for out of current tax receipts. In reality, with an aging population, we are in a situation where current tax receipts can't cover the provision as adequately as expected. But because the older generation are more likely to vote, policy is skewed in their favour, so instead of making OAP benefits subject to the same assessment of need, they cut other benefits / services instead.

I don't buy the "it's too costly to administer" line, either. How is it that a fuel allowance is too costly to administer, but working out liability to repay child benefit isn't? Surely once people are earning an income in retirement, for most of them it'll be relatively fixed, so it only really needs to be assessed once?

VeloWoman · 03/10/2014 12:24

I don't think the OP is arguing that the pension should be brought down I think this is trying to point out that JSA is not enough to live on, but it seems if you are unemployed and under 65 you are a scrounged but over 65 and you should be given lots more.

For some people getting work is very hard, it shouldn't be heat or eat for them just because they are not old!

Missunreasonable · 03/10/2014 12:27

Carers allowance is the real pittance -£60 per week for working a minimum of 35 hours every week (but many many more hours in most cases). Carers allowance also doesn't entitle the receipient to free prescriptions or dental care unlike JSA either.

sashh · 03/10/2014 13:39

The basic State pension is £113.10. Most people who receive the State pension have paid into it in the form of NI over a lifetime of work. It isn't a 'free gift' for being old.

I disagree with anyone saying they have paid in to it over a lifetime. My mother worked from leaving school until she married. She then did a few years part time when her children were older.

One of my aunts has not worked since she married 30 years ago.

SAHP have their NI credited for them for a number of years, they don't pay in to it.

ladygingina · 03/10/2014 14:41

For the average baby boomer it is a free gift though, as they are taking out more than they contributed.

OP posts:
lacksdirection · 03/10/2014 15:56

paxtecum There are many people trying to run a home on JSA.
What extra money does a single unemployed person receive to help them run a household?
I have a friend on JSA. She receives 72.40 a week. Added to that, she has to pay 4.80 a week council tax support and 16.00 a week bedroom tax.
She also has to put aside 3.50 a week to ensure she has enough money for the bus fare fortnightly (7.00 return journey) to sign on at her closest JC.

This leaves her less than 50.00 a week to run her home on.

WooWooOwl · 03/10/2014 18:05

JSA is a free gift for people that haven't contributed too. That doesn't mean that people who have never worked shouldn't get it if they fit the criteria.

3nonblondeboys80 · 03/10/2014 18:16

yanbu. I have a relative who is 60 and really struggling on jsa. 10 years previously she would now be retired with a free bus pass. yet she has to pay £5 every two weeks just to sign on. She also has expenses relating to having to jobsearch daily and for her voluntary work.. It is totally crap. o and she also has to pay council tax and would be subject to bedroom tax if she had a spare room. Yet a pensioner would not. O and yes she has worked for 30 years of her life.

3nonblondeboys80 · 03/10/2014 18:19

not a free gift in my relatives case. She has put in far more than she has got out. Incidently that is 30 solid years of work. Has also worked intermittently since.

Missunreasonable · 03/10/2014 18:43

Nonblonde in England the qualifying age for a free bus pass is 60 (it is in my area and I presume in others). Your friend should be able to get one if she lives in England. I don't know what the rules are for other parts of the UK and whether it is retirement age rather than 60 if you live somewhere other than England.

Missunreasonable · 03/10/2014 18:45

Sorry, Surat that nonblonde. It see that it is 60 in some parts of the country but not others. I don't know why this is.

BitterAndOnlySlightlyTwisted · 03/10/2014 18:49

It is (or rather was) possible to live on JSA. Just about. Because I had to do it. But I was lucky in that when I started to claim I had no debts and few commitments. No car expenses to pay or anything like that, just a tenner a week towards my mobile phone & internet access. Fortunately all of my rent and Council tax was covered. Remember those couple of horrendous winters we had a while back when there was snow and ice on the ground for weeks on end? I do, because that was the time when I couldn't afford to put the heating on. When the thermostat indoors read 10 degrees Centigrade. Worrying about the utility bills used to keep me awake at night. It was all barely manageable until shoes needed to be repaired or the washing-machine broke down. I walked two hours to the JobCentre because the 2.50 it would have cost on the bus was better put towards my grocery shopping. It was bloody tough then but I understand it's even tougher now. For anyone having to cope long-term it's completely impossible and it's no wonder so many are compelled to risk it and take a couple of hours work in the black economy if they can find any. If I could have done it, I would have.

Mrsdavidcaruso · 03/10/2014 18:57

so what 3non? my own mum has worked and paid in full ni for 44 years and after her contribution based jsa ran out she wasn't even allowed to claim income based jsa as my dads pension that he worked for 45 years to get plus paying enhanced ni to get a better pension took them a few quid over the amount the law says a couple need to live on at least your relative gets jsa. Luckily at age 59 she managed to find a job

As I have said before when my mum retires at 66 her and my dad will have paid in for 96 years between them so they deserve everything they get well at least until they have to go into a care home and then their council will take their pensions off them to help pay for their care

samsam123 · 03/10/2014 19:18

i dont begrudge pensioners the money they get as theey have paid into the system, I gave up my job to be a carer I get just over £60 a week so JSA are damn lucky to get that much

LuisSuarezTeeth · 03/10/2014 19:40

I don't think anyone whose only source of income is either state pension, JSA or Carers Allowance is going to be able to manage very well.

It's not about what you've paid in either - thats rather the point of insurance.

Single people on JSA and people claiming carers allowance definitely come off worst though. The proposed freeze is probably going to tip a lot of people over the edge.

3nonblondeboys80 · 03/10/2014 20:29

miss i have checked online and it says you only qualify on your retirement age. will double check. thank you.

isseywithcats · 03/10/2014 20:31

it isnt just people who are not working that get assesed at JSA levels, i work 15 hours a week as that is all i can get at the moment, i earn £100 a week and my housing benefit is based on £72 a week at jsa levels plus £5 allowance for working, so break down

wages £400 a month incoming
housing benefit £220 a month incoming
total £620 a month incoming

Outgoings
Rent £400 a month
Council tax £30 a month
Water rates £31 a month
Tv license £13 a month
Gas £20 a month ( cant afford any more)
Electric £20 a month ( cant afford any more)
Broadband £24 a month

so outgoings £528 a month
so this leaves me £92 a month for food, bus fares, clothes,
god knows what i will do if anything breaks down go without i suppose

3nonblondeboys80 · 03/10/2014 20:34

it is tough for anyone on jsa mrs but it is especially hard on a single person. it is also unfair that another relative gets no jsa because her dp has saved hard and therefore has some savings and a pension.