to think that paying for an architect to draw up plans is pointless

[breakingthebank]

I'm thinking about having an extension on my house and have spoken to 5 or 6 friends who've had work done. A couple used architects, the others used technical drawers (sp?)

Not one of them can recommend the person who drew up their plans because they're not happy with the work. The common theme is that the builder had to rejig lots of things because the plans weren't realistic/wouldn't work in practice.

AIBU to just get the cheapest possible person to draw plans for planning permission purposes and accept there'll be changes made by the builder later?

Surely if you have a good architect who speaks to the builder, there shouldn't be any need for changers during the build? Pay peanuts, get monkeys and all that.

I don't know. We paid for a really good architect and he came up with ideas that we had never thought of. He maximised our space way better than our ideas and the builders followed it word for word ( or line for line or whatever)
I'm really pleased so IMO I would say get a good one in.

IME builders rejig plans because they're too lazy to put the effort in to get the desired result. We found this time and again when we were renovating - "ooh no you can't do that," it was all bullshit. We just kept looking until we found a decent builder who had a brain in his head, could understand the plans and was willing to put the effort in. We got exactly what we wanted, plus he was actually cheaper than all the "can't do that" idiots.

We used an "architectural technician" - i.e. not an architect but good at doing technical drawings.

He made a couple of useful suggestions, which genuinely improved the layout we ended up with. Other than that, he basically drew up what we asked him to, but put in all the technical detail for compliance with building regs. He then recommended builders - one of whom we appointed - who priced based exactly according to his drawings. There was very little variation during the build, other than in the foundations, which we had already been warned might change according to what they found when they started digging.

The plans cost us about £2000 and were worth every penny. I think the trick for us was to get a plan-drawer and a builder who were used to working together. So they understood what each other needed and there was no quibbling about how to do it.

I disagree. We've had tricky building works to an old house. Our architect knew what the planners would accept & came up with some great uses of space that we hadn't considered.
He was able to advise what stone to use, where to get reclaimed roof tiles & even where to get a great kitchen.
Paid through the nose though.

Builders will rejig to suit their own budgets to suit what they can do cheaper whilst charging you the same, if not more as it's a variation, than the original would have.

Why are the builders being trusted more than the architects?

Your alternative is to go to the builder - most of them will have someone who will draw up the plans for you that they work with often, or in house, and that may give you more comfort that it's buildable?

Oh and a cautionary tale..friends of my parents refused to let an architect draw up plans for the house they were building. What resulted was a ridiculous hodgepodge of wasted space and weird layout. It is a truly awful house because they totally underestimated how much space the kitchen needed, for example, and overestimated the space needed for the sitting room. They hated it, still do, but have no choice but to live there.
Now, admittedly a whole house is a much bigger project than an extension but still even with an extension you need someone who knows what they're talking about and who can simply say "that won't work" or "it would be better if..." so you're not spending thousands on a space that annoys you for the rest of your life.

I agree you don't need an architect, but a good technical draughtsman will have done loads of extensions and will give you some ideas that you might not have considered.

I agree about lazy builders. The number that told DH that something wasn't possible was amazing. Find a good builder and you should get exactly what the dwgs say.

The architect we used for our garage conversion was recommended by a friend and did a fantastic job. He was able to visualise what we wanted, and find a way of fitting it all in, and still have plenty of space.
We then used a builder recommended by same friend who was just brilliant, and finished everything off exactly as it should have been.
Reiterate what pp said...."pay peanuts, get monkeys".

I'm with flipchart. We used a brilliant architect who turned our limited options into something truly amazing. Well worth the money!

Depends on the technicality of the project. I used to do some minor drawings and when we needed to get planning permission I did the drawings and it got through first time.

Try a building surveyors rather than an architects if it's a bog standard extension. Use an architect if you want something interesting.

Husband drew our plans up himself for the builders - but he is a graphic designer by trade so they were of a "good" standard rather than back of an envelope stuff. The builders followed them exactly but pointed out adjustments we could make - eg the size of the velux windows etc.

If you're getting a bog standard rectangle shaped extension, you'll be fine. Anything a bit more irregular I'd consider doing it via an architect.

You could always source the builders first, outline your basic ideas and see what they said?

It is important to have builders you trust - ours were pretty creative and come up with things that we hadn't considered.

Additionally, we had to wait years until we could afford our extension - we had years to consider layout and I think this really benefitted us. Three years on, I wouldn't change a thing about the layout.

Oh and one other thing - we chalked up our extension on the patio it would replace - even chalked in where the kitchen units and table would go so we could get an idea of size/scale - really helpful. You could do the same with electrical tape or something.

(1) Marry a structural engineer
(2) Nag for months to do anything
(3) Pull hair out

DH often acts as an expert witness in cases where people are suing their builders and/or architects when work goes wrong. A very common thread is that the plans were drawn up and submitted using photographs having not visited the site first. Another is buildings re-using plans for a similar/identical house on the same street and hoping for the best.

I think it is also fairly common to have to tweak things once work gets underway. Sometimes you don't know until you strip the plaster off what size supporting beams are, or what condition walls are in, so you have to rejig

Oh and don't be scared to knowck on neighbours houses and have a look at their extensions - we did this and realised staright away we didn't want to just extend the two back rooms outwards. We turned one of them into two small rooms (downstairs wc and utility room) and opened the other up into a fabulous L shaped, kitchen diner/lounge area. Now one of our neighbours has copied out layout for her extension!

We were also admamant we didn't want to gain a new room and just stop using another as we didn't think there would be any benefit to that so we were very concerned about the "flow" and functions of rooms (saw a friend create a beautiful kitchen diner through expensive extension but now the dining room is used about twice a year - I'd have just knocked through from the existing dining room and saved myself thousands!).

We used an architect and his plans were fabulous for getting maximum use out of the space. But it's not just that, it looks good and is so easy on the eye. You cna tell that it wasn't done on the vack of an envelope . Our builders, who were fabulous, built what was planned.

It was the details that made all the difference. Just little things that we certainly would not have considered. Like building out a supporting wall by just 6 inches so that all the walls finished at the same place, sight line ? And building out another by just 2 inches to get them all to line up. I can see how a lazy builder might suggest it wasn't necessary.

Agree with getting the flow right too. We never have anyone crashing in to anyone else or squeezing past as the flow is good. In the previous kitchen it was a constant excuse me/can you get out of the way/please don't stand in fornt of the fridge when I was trying to cook.

we changed the layout of the master bedroom/ensuite in our new house before it was built. this made it much better and the builder did the same for the other houses in the close. it did make me wonder that we could improve on the layout that an architect must have designed....and it was so much clearly better, not just personal taste

DH started life as an architectural technician and still does plans here and there by word of mouth even though he's not really in that side of things anymore.
When he was it was pretty usual for the architect to come along and say 'I want this, this and this' and the techies then had to solve the issues themselves.
In DH's case he has a handful of tradesmen he knows well and trusts and he'll usually recommend to whoever he's doing the work for that they get a quote from these builders.

There are good and bad technicians in every trade I suspect but I'd have no qualms in using a technician over a fully qualified architect for any project.

We used an architect who recommended a builder. It worked well for us because, locally, everyone in the trade knows everyone, so were able to recommend their mates to do other jobs, and best of all, they all knew the Building Regs person so everything went through really smoothly. We also went for an Approved person to do the building regs, rather than the council, which worked out a couple of hundred cheaper.

Really interesting to hear these viewpoints...maybe the architects are getting blamed for the builders shortcomings. The difficulty I have though is finding someone to do the plans when no one is prepared to recommend! How did others find someone to draw their plans?

Agree with flipchart. Currently renovating & his ideas, use of space etc has been fabulous ie extending out back & side to utilise ground space.
He has had to be reigned in re use of glass - too modern for our tastes!
He will Also oversee tendering process & recommend builders who will carry out the works within our budget.
Invaluable IMO.

breaking as I said earlier everything DH does is word of mouth. Ask around friends and family to see who they used. Have a look in your street and see if someone else has an extension, give them a knock and ask who they used.

The only job DH ever did where it went a bit awry was because the couple hired the cheapest builder they could find who didn't follow the plans at all. Angry couple called DH who managed to show them where the builder had gone wrong and eventually builder was given the boot

Certainly with DH he's spent 25 years in the architectural/project management/building industry so he does know which tradesmen are good. If an architect/technician recommends someone do listen, though it is prudent to get other quotes. Be very wary of a very cheap quote from a builder who can start straight away.

Yep completely agree with flip

Our builder was good but he/they still made a few mistakes, they admitted that they were to blame

Yep, I've had an extension done and while our architect wasn't perfect later on in the process, an architectural tech - or indeed a builder - wouldn't have been able to do what he did with the space. I agree it's more likely to be a builder taking short-cuts, or someone taking short-cuts with the plans - for eg a pp mentioned getting the person who did next door's plans to draw up your plans, and actually what you get is next door's plans...

There's an architect portal, hang on a mo...