To think when you're viewing a property the tenant shouldn't be there

[Vintagejazz]

I am hoping to move shortly and have started house hunting. Last month I viewed a property where the tenant was hanging around, making it very clear that she was resentful of people looking at the place she was renting, and generally making the experience very uncomfortable.

On Saturday I went to look at another rented property that's been put up for sale. The estate agent met us at the door but again, the tenant was there, sitting in the main living area and puffing away on cigarettes. Again it felt really uncomfortable, as if we were invading her privacy by going into bedrooms, opening the door of the airing cupboard and looking at the kitchen cupboards to see how much space there was.

AIBU to think that tenants should go out and stroll around for half an hour or grab a cup of coffee somewhere, or even just sit in their car with the newspaper and let people look around the property in comfort?

No, you can't force tenants to allow viewings (in England and Wales anyway), no matter what's in the contract.

Yeah, pay money for a coffee, sit in your non-existent car. All for your comfort. How about the LL wait till the property is empty to flog it if he cares about your 'comfort'

YABVU- I had this as a tenant years ago, the whole process is so intrusive, with complete strangers poking through every room, disrupting every weeknight up until 9pm and sporadic appointments all through Saturday.

A horrible experience not helped by numpty estate agents who I would never have trusted to supervise strangers in the property. And why on earth should a tenant vacate the property to convenience the vendor? No just no.

You seem to forget that there is a legal obligation to notify tenants of any visits at least 24 hours prior....

OP you do realise that if you are looking at buying a property that is currently tenanted, they may not "just move" when the time comes. Despite estate agents claims, it can take months and months to get them out, if they don't want to go.

And back to the original question, it's still the tenants HOME, they don't have to let any viewers in at all.

There is a clause, but I'm not sure, as special says, that it's enforceable.

And, as with any other entry to the house, there has to be at least 24 hours' notice (unless the tenant is very accommodating and allows less time, which we did on occasion).

It still has to be convenient for the tenant for them to come round, so prospective viewers may just have to wait.

The agent selling our rented house wanted us to do the viewings for them. We put our foot down on that point and said no!

Always on these threads the same misconception comes up that a tenant has to allow viewings.....it's in their contract....as long as they are given 24hrs notice...etc etc.

None of it is true. There is no occasion where that contract rule has been enforced successfully (if you find one I will dig out a hat and eat it). The 'quiet enjoyment' rule in statutory law trumps whatever is written in a lettings agreement (contract law)

I agree lotties. On both occasions the Estate Agent made a point of saying that the tenants would be moving shortly, but in the first case I definitely got the impression that the tenant wouldn't be moving without a fight. She was very obviously making viewings awkward and also had the place in a complete state when we viewed. I wondered if her landlady had eventually put the place up for sale with her still in it in order to try and force the situation.

Plenty of clauses in contracts are not legally enforceable. For example ours said we must get the property professionally cleaned. Nope, we'll clean it and return it as per the inventory but we don't legally need to get it professionally cleaned.

selling/buying or renting, I would still be there for viewings. Its my home at the end of the day. Full of mine and my family's belongings. I'm always polite and considerate to existing tenants and to be honest prefer to see them and be able to ask them questions about the area and moving on to how dealings have been with the landlord etc. I'd always be suspicious of an agent wanting the tenant/owner to not be present for viewings.

There is a clause, but I'm not sure, as special says, that it's enforceable.

It's not. Well, not without a court order anyway, and I don't even think the seller would be able to get one of those. Just because something is written in to a contract, doesn't mean it will stand up in court.

LL's that want to market their property for sale while raking in the cash from renting it out just want to have their cake and eat it IMO.
Get rid of the T, THEN market the property.

And in case anyone wonders, I'm not a T or a LL.

RCheshire that's true but the ONE time I said "No it's not convenient" the agent acted as though I'd shat in her office. She got really bullying too. Said "Oh well your Landlord is NOT happy." etc.

I emailed her back and told her I would not be discussing any of it with her from that point and she could ask her colleague to contact me in future or I would ignore her and disallow ALL viewings. Silly cow. no thank you at all for the massive effort I did make for all the viewings I allowed....all of them bar one!

Obviously must be completely different here in Ireland. It's very unusual for an owner to remain in the house while it's being shown, unless they're selling it privately. And some Estate Agents will refuse to take a house on their books unless it's vacated for showing.

I've been on both sides, I cannot explain to you how horrible it is having people in your home critiquing your furniture, cleanliness, decor. The effort of keeping it immaculate at all times. When it's not your choice to move. The agents we dealt with were awful, make appointments, not turn up. Turn up late, turn up without appointment. All whilst your trying to pack up your house. It's a horrid feeling

On the flip side I've viewed a house and have felt what you did. That's awful too, but I can assure you it's worse being the tennent.

Can you imagine a tenant "went out and "let" said viewer and EA in to the flat in their absence, then returned home to find some of their property missing? Do you think the contents insurance would pay out? No, me neither.

A lot of lettings agents don't know very much about the law. Some of them know perfectly well they can't enforce things like this, but others actually don't know. You don't need any particular training to set up as a lettings agent (or didn't last I checked).

YAB ridiculously unreasonable. I've had people viewing my house recently...Every single day for the past 2 weeks. You expect me to go out every day for half a hour, interrupting whatever I'm doing to let people view the place?! I work from home so this is especially unreasonable in my situation.

I have sympathy with the OP, it must be uncomfortable looking round a house with the tenant there, resenting you being there at all.

IMHO it is the landlord that is BU. I'm in no way anti landlord, but trying to ensure you have rental income whilst you are selling, stops the tenant having quiet enjoyment of their home. It can also lead to all sorts of complications and problems for the buyer, if the tenant doesn't move out when expected, delaying exchange etc.

OP, you ANBU, landlord is.

polarpercy, quite. At the end of our last tenancy the landlord tried to claim all of the deposit for professional cleaning, professional gardening, carpets etc. Thankfully the independent deposit protection arbitration people told him where to go. It was far tougher to get your deposit back in the 'old days'

On those occasions that we were tenants and the flat was put on the market the estate agent tried to be as accommodating as possible by having for example one block viewing at a time that was most convenient to me. They knew that we were well within our rights to be in the flat during the viewings but they always made sure there was minimal disruption for us. I always ensured that the place was presentable, not because I was expected to but because I was house proud regardless of whether I was the owner or not.

YABVU! I was present when all nine viewings took place in my last rented place... there is no way I was going out for two hours on a Saturday, leaving all of my belongings unsecured while more than 20 strangers traipsed round my home with zero benefit to myself. The agent even warned me against leaving my handbag in the kitchen while I was sitting in the lounge FGS.

YABVVU.

We rent, moved recently and as such, there were viewings on our old house.

We were paying rent to be there, why on earth should I have had to leave my home in case it made a prospective tenant feel uncomfortable?! I don't have a car to sit in and even if I did, given that sometimes people would turn up 30 mins late, or not at all, that's hardly reasonable.

Not to add I don't like the idea of somebpdy poking around my home when I'm not at least in the property.

DD and I would sit in the kitchen during viewings, if people didn't like it then tough shit.

in the immediate situation, YABU, it's still the T's home, they are paying rent for the property and legally, don't have to even let you in, but in terms of the bigger picture, no, YANBU, but this is down to the LL, they should wait until the house is empty before marketing it.

Plenty of EAs, too, just rock up. They try ploys like ringing the tenant, 'Oh, we are just round the corner, mind if we pop in?' And plenty come in with no notice.

One poster on here was eating breakfast with his wife in the kitchen on a Saturday morning, in dressing gowns, when the agent and viewer entered with no notice or warning.

I'm surprised you even had an EA to supervise - our landlord has put the house on the market and we, the tenants, have been expected to conduct all of the viewings. Same for our last rental property. I did specify that one of us would need to be present for any viewings because we have dogs in the house but that seems to have been extended to doing the EA's job for them.

Now, we are decent tenants who have cleaned and tidied the house each time, made pleasantries with viewers through gritted teeth etc. but we do not want to leave and could quite easily be spouting off about the damp, awful neighbours, poor repairs...

Good of you to admit you were being unreasonable :)