To find the British "inverse snobbery"… weird?!?

[MillieV]

OK - first things first… I'm not a Brit, but have been here for over a dozen years. As an "international", I seem to not belong to any particular class. Hence, I'm not defined by the class system here, and I find it really weird how so many people think.

I mean… in all seriousness... I sometimes feel this place is some alternate universe ripe to be portrayed in the next dystopian novel, where one is meant to stay in their own class bubble, never moving anywhere else. In movies, it's always "snobbery" that's portrayed - rich people looking down on the poor. So I'm so surprised to have found that "inverse snobbery" exists. To be honest, this is the FIRST country I've ever encountered that in (and I've lived in many), below are just some of the symptoms:

• People not wanting to see other people better themselves (shock horror, how dare they?) - this one truly p*sses me off

• People saying things like they 'are a working class family with professional jobs'. Jeeez… what does that even mean?!? So what… your great-grandfather was a miner or something… and hence, you still define yourself as working class? Oh. My. God. How far back do you go? Middle Ages? Or back when the Neanderthal was still around?

• People never wanting to hear about a sport that's perceived as posh (and turn their noses up at any mention of them).

… and yes, don't even mention private schooling.

Can someone please tell a 'Non-Brit' why this is? What's this obsession about?!?

I think this a troll trying to do "research" for an article, essay or book.
I have lived in many countries and a factor of all of them is some sort of social stratification - however it manifests itself.

Anyone knows that.

OK - first things first… I'm not a Brit, but have been here for over a dozen years. As an "international", I seem to not belong to any particular class. Hence, I'm not defined by the class system here, and I find it really weird how so many people think.

Darling, you do belong to a class. You have not escaped you just don't realise it.

I'm so surprised to have found that "inverse snobbery" exists. To be honest, this is the FIRST country I've ever encountered that in (and I've lived in many), below are just some of the symptoms

It is pure jealousy. We like to keep up with the Jones' so if we can't we will criticise. How dare anyone have stuff we don't have.

People saying things like they 'are a working class family with professional jobs'. Jeeez… what does that even mean?!? So what… your great-grandfather was a miner or something… and hence, you still define yourself as working class? confused Oh. My. God. How far back do you go? Middle Ages? Or back when the Neanderthal was still around?

Yep - These people are complete saddos and need to get a grip.

People never wanting to hear about a sport that's perceived as posh (and turn their noses up at any mention of them)

You mean like Polo - out of my social range and I know nothing about it so I'll turn my nose up at that one.

and yes, don't even mention private schooling

Again, jealousy. I wish I could afford it.

Why I think the English (possibly British -- not sure how far it extends) class system is particularly intriguing to others is that it actually has nothing to do with money. However much money you make, wherever you choose to educate your children, however many polo ponies you own and courses you serve at dinner, if you were not born upper class you will never, ever be upper class.

I don't think that is limited to the English class system. My first husband was a minor royal. The embassy labelled me "a common shop girl" when asked to fact find on who exactly my husband had sneaked off and married behind everybody's back. And "common shop girl" I remained for the next decade.

Common shop girl. Cheeky bastards. I was an EXCEPTIONAL shopgirl. I was really bleeding good at it and my customer service got me a record number of shoppers giving positive feedback. It's exactly the same attribute that makes me such a popular teacher. I am nice to people.

Unlike some of the "up there on the social ladder" types that I had the misfortune to encounter at functions I didn't want to go to anyway.

again, i agree Infinity

i am proud, for instance, of the working class stand against slavery

Lincoln's great debt to Manchester

gu.com/p/3dfyk

although often, we have chosen to align with our oppressors, to oppress others

OP I can only agree with you. Same situation than you (European living in the uk)
After 15 years, I still can't understand it.
It dies a long way to understand some reactions I get though.
Ie my (non British) family would probably fall into the 'upper class' bracket here. But from the outside, I'm firmly into the middle class category. Except that regularly there are some things that come out that just don't fit that picture. I even see it with my dcs... (Eg horror looks when dc1 says he likes to listen the Classic fm as well as the 'excepted' local radio for teens)

It's crazy. It stops people dreaming and doing more than 'what they are suppose to do'. I've been told that I shouldn't dream for my dcs to go to Oxbrige because 'people here don't go there'. That I should expect them to go to Uni in our area, certainly not down South, London or god forbid my home country.

Really???

And the that's not jealousy. It's the utter inability to see they can do something else. That they aren't destined to be what 'their class' tell them they are. And from what I gathered from some threads here, it's true for any class. Incl the upper clas, posh kid that can't imagine doing anything else than what 'the family has always done' even if they are in the best position ever to choose what they want to do. Nope. They have to stay within the limit of their class.

IMHO it's very very sad.

So you can understand why people might look down on poor people, because thats obvious, but you cannot understand why these people who may have experienced this their whole life, might bear a grudge and dislike obvious signs of privilege???

yes i am not sure why it is labelled 'jealousy'
it suits those in power to think of it as such. why anyone else labels it jealousy i cant imagine

cricket I disagree with you. Where I'm coming from, education is what makes the difference. If you come out if the right school/Uni, that's what opens doors. Once you are in that group, then yes they close rank.
The major difference is that you CAN get to that famous Uni through hard work and your class/money will not make any difference at all.

That means that you can have a social mobility that doesn't exist here. Actually the latest stats show that social mobility is in steady decline here. And that sort of attitude doesn't help.

It really is just a case of most people in this culture being more comfortable with people of a similar social class to them. It works all ways. People rarely venture out of it, unless its for work.

Id say that the working class are much more amenable to people with more money than them, than vice versa. Love the royals, aspire to celebrity etc, whereas the upper classes barely even register those they consider lower

What about we are all people and there is no need to think in 'class' with the one who always take decisions and the ones who always follow.

What about if a working class person was deciding to take things in their hands and become prime minister. And be the decision maker instead?

Anyone who says 'yes but that's normal we look at the elite like this because xxx' is still think in terms if class they can't get out off.

Whats the issue with polo? My red brick university riding club had a polo team, comprised of non- horse owning members, and played against similar uni clubs at little expense.

random fact of the day
0.6% of the population own almost 70% of the land in britain

www.independent.co.uk/voices/commentators/johann-hari/britains-land-is-still-owned-by-an-aristocratic-elite--but-it-doesnt-have-to-be-this-way-483131.html

The way I see this around me isn't an issue about being more comfortable. It's about not allowing yourself to be more than.

Even when 'working people' dream about the X factor, everyone knows they will always be working class.

Why on earth would people from a working class background not be comfortable with the upper class? What stops them from enjoying classic mudic, going to the theatre and using a napkin instead of a serviette?

"What about if a working class person was deciding to take things in their hands and become prime minister."

would that it were so easy

it's not like "working class" people just don't have enough ambition. the pathway is closed off at a very early stage for the vast majority. it's not ok, but it's also not about people being unwilling to "better themselves"

While inverse snobbery is not nice to experience, the only people it hurts are the lower classes. I experienced from some in my village it when I went away to university "who dies she think she is?"
BUT - If you don't understand that being called posh or la-di-da while sitting with all the advantages of money or private schooling or family connections, or all three, is NOTHING compared to actually living with the limitations of being from a lower achieving family. I am not going to get all overwhelmed with sympathy for those with all of life's advantages.
I'll save my sympathy for the kids on the estate where they will be lucky to achieve employment as an adult, where nobody they know "like them" has ever been to university, where their parents know nothing about how you even apply never mind advising on extra-curricular activities that look good on Ucas forms.
I have a comfortable professional life but I can totally understand how lucky I have been and have no interest in snipping at those less fortunate just because they might dare to get a bit chippy and insult their "betters" sometimes.

"If you don't understand that being called posh or la-di-da while sitting with all the advantages of money or private schooling or family connections, or all three, is NOTHING compared to actually living with the limitations of being from a lower achieving family. I am not going to get all overwhelmed with sympathy for those with all of life's advantages."

exactly this

San I fortunately this is true in every country, the US, Europe.
The difference is that here it has to be the 'aristocracy' whereas everywhere else people will talk about the 50 wealthier people of the country.

Can you see? Here it has to be immediately related to class. Whereas in other places, it's related to wealth (I doubt for example that Bill Gayes would have been upper class even though he would have been part of these 0.6%)

blame the oppressed or blame the oppressors?

example: our cabinet. is it necessary to have to go to one of two schools to run the country? did the rest of us not try hard enough perhaps?

ah yes, i forgot to mention

its the same 0.6% it was a hundred years ago/two hundred years ago/three hundred years ago

yes, in the usa, there is more of a meritocracy, and of course the original land owners were turfed off

My point is that when you have the sort if attitude like the ones described in the OP, like the ones I see around me, doors are closing not because if a lack of ambition or opportunities but because people can't even imagine it can happen. And people around them tell them they can't do it either.

It's nothing to do with how hard the life as a working class is or how many advantages the upper class has.

It has everything about the way you look at things.

I'm probably one of those inverse snobs you talk about op.

I find it hard to like people who are obsessed with "bettering" themselves, money, acquisitions, private schooling, designer goods, flash cars, that sort of thing.

And the very worst thing about them? If you ever show indifference or distate at their lording it up over their fellow citizens, you will be accused of jealousy. Or having a chip on your shoulder. It is such a cliche!