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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To ask if your kids' schools resemble those on Educating .. the East End, etc?

22 replies

kitnkaboodle · 29/09/2014 00:39

.. because I've been shocked by the level of cheekiness shown by kids to staff on those problems and wondered how far that is the norm these days? Obviously the tensions and difficulties are what the programme is going to focus on, but I'm not talking about the 'problem' kids on those programmes, but a lot of the everyday ban-taaaah. I'm also quite shocked at how much the teachers put up with good humouredly that in my day (hoist) would have got you into big trouble.
I'm terribly old school, and asked my Year 8 son if it (the East End one) resembled his school in terms of discipline. He said no, his wasn't as 'bad' as those.
But is he one of the lucky ones these days?

OP posts:
gingee · 29/09/2014 00:56

At my kids school they stand up when certain teachers enter the room and have to be told to sit down, some newer younger teachers don't bother though
They have to ask to remove their blazers
Slamming a door or drawing on the front of your exercise book will result in possibly two nights of detention
You walk on a certain side of the corridor and hold doors for any and all staff
Some teachers they have a more friendship style relationship with where they will give their own time to help with certain things eg dd was struggling with a subject and the teacher met with her each lunchtime for a few weeks
Dd bought her form tutor's baby a 1st bday present as the tutor will show them pics/videos/tell them stories about baby
Teachers perhaps have nicknames for kids and have a bit of a laugh with them about a dodgy hair style or the footie team losing but not to the extent you see on these tv programmes

Dds school has been described as draconian by some local parents though, but has 1500 applicants for 110 places each year so not unpopular

I loved Educating Yorkshire, only seen a bit of a East End though so far

Iffy2014 · 29/09/2014 01:56

I teach in secondary, but I've never watched any of the "Educating" series... feels a bit too much like work to me!

The school I currently work in is a lot like gingee describes: asking permission to remove blazers, standing up for the head, holding doors/stepping aside for staff. This, in my opinion, is good for children. It teaches them early on how to respond to the inevitability of rules and the presence of an authority which is not their parents in the "real world". The school is in an area of very low social mobility. The school seems happy and friendly as a result of these boundaries, which mean that there is opportunity for mutual respect from staff for students as well. I would indulge in a bit of "bantah" with my lower set boys and my sixth form, but only in the interest of keeping a good relationship with my pupils, since you can't bark at them all the time. However, I make it clear to them (as I've reminded one Year 10 already this year), I am their teacher, NOT their "mate", and have no interest in being so.

This is far better than the last school I worked in, where the level of "cheek" was ridiculous from some pupils towards staff. The kids didn't know how to move appropriately through a corridor (I would frequently have books/belongings knocked out of my hands), and swearing at staff was a daily behavioural issue. The SLT were at fault here, I believe, for not employing a stricter behaviour regime (mobile phones in class not confiscated, for example, so pupils were often using camera phones or social media during lessons- many problems with safeguarding here...), and also for indulging in the outrageous demands of the parents, who had a similar lack of respect for the school. Funnily enough, this was in a far more middle class area, with higher aspirations and wealthier parents.

Personally, I have found that children are, comparatively, more entitled (a Mumsnet fave!) "these days", but usually because they come from more entitled families, who believe their child/they can do no wrong, and have issues with acceptance of authority... the, "Peter is a spirited child" sort... I have sometimes received info on my new pupils which states, "Does not like authority", or, "Finds female authority difficult to accept", or, "Dad will only communicate with male staff". Well, sucks to be them, they'll have to put up and get used to it, or real life is going to come as something of a mighty shock down the line, and I'll have failed miserably in my wider responsibility to a pupil if I start bending to such whims as, "Rohan doesn't like to be told what to do."

Thefishewife · 29/09/2014 06:12

I hope not Confused

The behaviour is dreadful one girl posted naked photos of another girl on line and not much was done granted her mum was ill but that is no exuse to behave badly

Pensionerpeep · 29/09/2014 06:51

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

wellnowthenmardybum · 29/09/2014 07:00

Sorry to tell you, but apparently it's worse. Kids today seem to be obsessed with their 'rights'.

Taz1212 · 29/09/2014 07:05

Not high school, but I'm frequently horrified at the behaviour in DD's school playground. There are regular fights (proper three children on one, pinning the one to the wall and punching their face fights, not a bit of pushing around). The last fight was over a football and when the staff aid tried to break it up and take the ball off a child (they aren't allowed footballs in the playground) she was told, "Make me." I've been told to fuck off by 10 year olds when I've dared to mind my own business walking through the playground and have had a random child slide into me whilst after their ball.

The school seem to either not care, or are powerless to do anything about it. They are now on their 7th Head in 9 years and there's no consistent leadership. I seem to be the only parent put off by it. DH went to primary and secondary schools a few miles away and when I mention it to him he just shrugs and says that's how it was when he was at school.

DD has less than two years left there and then she'll start at her brother's school- I can't wait!

bigjimsdiamondmine · 29/09/2014 07:17

I kind of think your mum being Ill is a bit of an excuse to behave badly, I felt insanely sorry for that girl. She genuinely didn't seem to realise how serious it was, you forget how naive some kids can be at that age, especially if they appear streetwise in most respects. Also she said she was being bullied by the other girl, not sure how true that is but the school would have more of a gauge on how likely that is and take it into account.

I actually didn't think the behaviour was that bad in the schools, and I went to a "posh" school with loads of rules, but I remember the behaviour being a lot worse at times than on that programme Shock. People used to backflip off desks, set fire to benches in chemistry, and the lads went through a face of physically dragging the girls across the field by their hair. The kids on the educating series aren't completely unruly they are just cheeky and bit hot headed, but I didn't see much actually bullying and nastiness which was good to see.

SetPhasersTaeMalkie · 29/09/2014 07:23

Yes my son does. Comprehensive school in a deprived area. The staff are amazing. DS loves it, seems to be learning. I've been pretty impressed.

The children, in general, look a bit scruffy. It's just like my school was although mine had slightly better results.

I don't get all the angst on here about schools.

TheFirstOfHerName · 29/09/2014 07:51

No. My two older children are at a state secondary. DS1 (14) watched E.Essex and E.Yorkshire and is now watching E.the East End with me. He is shocked at the way the pupils speak to the teachers and at the amount of low-level disruption.

DS1 and DS2's school is much stricter than the schools shown in these programmes. The style of teaching is more formal and the teachers are not as 'chummy' with the pupils. DS1 says that a lot of the behaviour shown by the pupils on these programmes would result in a detention at his school.

TheBuskersDog · 29/09/2014 07:57

No, but the producers wouldn't choose a school like my son's as it wouldn't make such good television.

eatyourveg · 29/09/2014 08:52

I'm in FE and all the "Educating" series remind me of characters from my classes

kitnkaboodle · 29/09/2014 11:36

Yes, there are 'characters' at every school - cheeky ones who are a bit lippy, but if you only watched these programmes and never set foot in any alternative secondary schools, you'd get the impression that every teenager was cheeking their teachers and the teachers were carrying on with the ban-tah back at them.
I think I must be terribly oldfashioned (I'm 50) but I was even shocked when Jebb (?), when asked if he believed in love at first sight (in the context of Romeo and Juliet), said 'well you might like the look of someone but then find out that they are a bitch'. The teacher laughed indulgently. Hmm Am I living in the past??

OP posts:
KittiesInsane · 29/09/2014 11:39

The warmth shown by some of the staff to the children is familiar, but mine (schooled in three different local comps) watch open-mouthed at some of the behaviour.

taxi4ballet · 29/09/2014 13:04

I actually went to one of the schools in the "Educating" series (quite a few years ago admittedly).

It wasn't like that when I was there...

Gubbins · 29/09/2014 13:08

The 'Educating...' series have been my first glimpse of state secondary schooling and I've been very impressed. The teachers and pupils actually seem to like each other and while there are instances where the kids kick off in a way that certainly didn't happen at my private girls' school, there also appears to be an underlying respect in both directions that I never experienced.

Hakluyt · 29/09/2014 13:10

Yes. All state schools are exactly like the worst bits of Educating the East End all the time.

That's why people have no choice but to go private.

[if you can't beat 'em, join em emoticon]

Behoove · 29/09/2014 13:10

God, no
Although I'm sure I don't know the half if it, probably better that way.

poolomoomon · 29/09/2014 13:19

My secondary school was a bit like the Yorkshire one and I am from Yorkshire. It was atrocious. Probably a lot worse than the Yorkshire one actually, we didn't have a lovely head teacher like they did...

At my school bunking off was the easiest thing in the world, literally just wandered out of the front gates and nobody was there to stop you.

We had an endless lot of supply teachers because main teachers were always leaving or going on long sick leaves, sometimes maternity leave but no permanent teachers would be put in place so we'd just get different substitution teachers. If we walked into a lesson and a sub was there we knew that was permission to fuck around and do zero work. All the supply teachers did was hand us a work sheet, they couldn't help us with it in any way because they weren't trained in whatever lesson it was. This happened a lot.

Teachers didn't have much control over us. There'd always be one or two trouble makers that would take up at least half of the lesson because the teacher would constantly be trying to reprimand them and failing...

This was a huge school with 2000 students. I left ten years ago and it's now a failing school according to OFSTED and has been for years. The head teacher has changed five times in the past 12 years. I only encountered one good teacher the whole time I was there, the others were weak and often lazy. I had one teacher that spent half of the lesson telling us about her love life FFS. It was a good school when my parents sent me there, the head teacher left in my second year and it all went to pot after that. It's an academy now and had a massive revamp but it hasn't done a thing for it.

So yeah, bad schools exist. Not sure if they're all like that but teachers don't have the 'powers' they once had, they're often afraid to reprimand the kids incase they make some sort of claim against them. I don't envy teachers at all, it's one job I could not do.

Vicky5910 · 29/09/2014 13:23

The school I work at I have to be careful to be friendly to students because there is no discipline. If I stand my ground I have no support from either parents or senior leaders.
For some teachers it's self preservation. I learnt the hard way in my first year that I can insist on certain rules, but I'll be insisting alone.
The kids are rude and entitled, it's a middle class kind of area. Parents are worse I'm afraid...

queenceleste · 29/09/2014 13:25

ds is in a much stricter school but some individual lessons have some mucking about, this is usually with the younger less experienced teachers of which there are MANY.

What happened to all the teachers in their 40s and 50s? primary and secondary schools seem to be depleted of them.

Hakluyt · 29/09/2014 14:12

It's very interesting that people focus on the disruptive, cheeky children and not on the quiet, studious ones. Why do we assume that the former are the norm, rather than the latter? Obviously I'm not saying the assumption is wrong- but it is the one we make.............

RufusTheReindeer · 29/09/2014 14:16

Apparently their school is nothing like those on the educating series

Apart from ds1 (15) old science class which was just like it!!

I do think a lot of time is wasted through low level (and high level) misbehaviour. It does anger me but I'm not sure what can be done.

I'm a bit kick them all out of the classroom but I know that's not always the right answer

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