To think he shouldn't smack...

[MrsBigginsPieShop]

... But I have no idea how else to deal?

My DH and I have a 13 month old PFB DS. Just about into everything. Newest thing is turning the plug sockets on and off. I tell him firmly no, explain it can hurt, mummy doesn't want him to do that, lead him away. DS grins at me, gets
distracted for a few minutes, then is back to the plug socket. It's the same with the oven, wood burner etc - even if not on - anything that could be a danger i.e can burn or shock. I feel like I spend my whole life saying 'no'.
Anyway, today DH had had enough and said to DS 'do it once more and I will smack you'. And he did, gently, on the wrist. DS does the usual grin and carries on, now almost sticking his finger in the socket, which is turned on. So DH tells him again, and gives DS a smack on the thigh. Still nothing but a grin. So I hear DH say " I will keep smacking until you stop". Then another smack and I think the shock of that made DS pull up short. At this point I took DS away, sat him down and told him no, told him to say sorry to Daddy for being disobedient and then cuddles.
Ok, sorry it's so long...
This was about six hours ago and I'm still seething at DH. We've had cross words about it and the atmosphere it's pleasant. DS is 13 months, at a great age and I know he understands but to continue to smack, however lightly, until he stops doing something just seems so circular and pointless. I'm fuming that DH hurt our son and I'm angry at myself I didn't handle it better.
But now I realise I have no idea how to discipline DS and make him realise I'm serious without a smack. All he does is laugh at me and I don't want him to be putting his fingers in sockets!
I'm also concerned DH parents like that, but I don't want to undermine him. My argument to DH was that we would never dream of striking each other, so why is it ok to do it to our son?
Am I aibu to be so upset?

Babies can't possibly be naughty/spoilt/bratty, because they're just babies.

You're not an awful Mum

It take a while to get it right (whatever 'right' is) with a PFB.

By the time you have a 3rd, just making it to the end of the day with everyone's limbs intact is a job well done

Echoing what PPs have said. Your DS is still a baby and I doubt he understands what you mean when you say "mummy doesn't like you doing that" or "I'll keep smacking until you stop".

My DD is nearly 14mo and wouldn't understand that mummy doesn't want her to put her fingers in plug sockets/chew the phone charger etc, but the tone I have when I say "NO!" lets her know she's doing SOMETHING she shouldn't. Other than that she just sees something she can play with. As for smacking, I personally don't agree with it at all, and 13 months is just a baby. A tiny, defenceless baby who really doesn't know any better

You don't need to feel like an awful mum, you just need to relax. During this stage you will be constantly supervising and trying to show them what is safe and what isn't. You just can't get so stressed about it because they have such limited understanding. I do think you need to have a talk with your dh though, and read some information on baby development together.

I don't think he's a monster but you seriously need to sit down together and talk about your thoughts on discipline. If he thinks smacking is OK now then he is definitely going to want to use it in 2-3 years time when the behaviour very suddenly ramps up (terrible twos are some kind of horrible myth, 3 and 4 is what it's about!) and is inexplicable, deliberate and defiant and they don't give two shits about reason. Your baby's behaviour isn't deliberate, he's exploring and interested and curious, he smiles at you because he loves you and he's having a really fun time and so thinks of course you're happy about him having fun (not that he really understands the concept that you're (a) a separate person and (b) that you have emotions which might be different to his at a given moment.) He's not cackling evilly inside his little baby head thinking "I know better than these stupid mean grown ups".

Talk about it now, get your game plan and philosophy in place now (I don't mean decide how you're going to deal with a misbehaving preschooler but your game plan for behaviour in general starting with what's happening at the moment) and anything that you don't want - smacking, whatever - lay it out now and have the argument now while he's (presumably) not smacking very hard and it's only happened once. If he gets into a habit of doing it and you only challenge it when you're really uncomfortable then it's going to be harder to get your point across.

FWIW I left my ex in part because he thought it was OK to smack our 10 month old when he crawled over him and pinched him because he didn't understand that you can't just grip onto a person the same way you do to a blanket or something. And then when I went ballistic at him, two weeks later he squeezed his hand so hard it made him cry as a punishment for "scratching him" (brushing his face with a baby-clumsy hand, with nails that hadn't been cut.) He thought this was fine as it wasn't smacking and I couldn't see When same baby DS started pulling my hair, I said no and removed his hand from my hair even if it meant prising his fingers apart, I did it as gently as I could, and gave him something else to hold. He learned that it wasn't OK to pull hair. I didn't need to hurt him, shout at him or frighten him to get him to understand that.

So his logic is to hurt him to teach him not to hurt himself?

OP - I don't believe in smacking, much better to do some actual parenting. Which means being 'on it' when you have babies around. They don't understand what the hell you are saying yet, so get in there and make sure you are in control of the situation.

I think if your DH's parenting plan is to smack a baby when he is being "disobedient", how the hell is he going to deal with him when he is older and is actually purposefully defiant. (Which he will be, all kids are to a greater or lesser extent!)

I think both of you have far too high an understanding of what a 13 month old can comprehend, given your explanation of everything that you said to him.

I think the PP's who have suggested distraction/ignoring have got it spot on. Your poor DS thinks this is some sort of game.

And xposted - you're not a bad mum! Everyone struggles with discipline at some point or other, I was soooo smug until my child hit 3, thought I had it all figured out. I don't and none of us do but it's perfectly possible to raise polite, happy, tolerant children without demanding unquestioning obedience or relying on some fear of untold threats all the time.

I really like www.ahaparenting.com although it can get a little bit overbearing of "My children are perfect angels and I have never once been a tiny bit irritated with them" - but the advice is sound, usually. Also Andrea Nair posts some great stuff on facebook.

How To Talk So Kids Will Listen and Listen So Kids Will Talk is an excellent book, most totally irrelevant for you right now but I still found it a really good tool for helping me understand my child and see things from their point of view which made it easier to work with them rather than against them. I would buy a copy used on amazon, read it now, and then put it away and get it out on your child's 3rd/5th birthday, when most of the practical advice will be much more relevant.

More mainstream is Toddler Taming, and 123 Magic, I'm not personally a fan of these books/approaches but a lot of my friends say they're absolutely brilliant and sanity savers.

Bertie thank you particularly for a great post. A lot of great advice.
I did have severe PND so I do find it hard to relax, but I will try. Control and repetition is the way forward it seems!

We did baby signing and in this situation would do the sign, while making and unusual sound (sucking air through lips) to make ours stop and look at us. Then we'd say 'no, danger! ' and remove them from the danger.
Even now, several years later if I make that sound, my kids stop in their tracks or, if they are too far away to hear me, I can do the 'danger' sign and they stop. Might be worth a try?

Some Children's Centres run parenting courses, my ex childminder did the PPP Positive Parenting one and spoke very highly of it. I was a bit about the idea of parenting courses because I thought it would be all chav types but really not, they can be really useful and it's all just information and tools to use, nothing that you actually have to use, just things you can take away from and think about.

I think the answer is to childproof. Kids that age are biologically designed to explore everything. You might as well smack him for starting to walk. And he's a baby still, so cause/effect is pretty shaky, let alone self-regulation, guilt etc.

To be honest it just sounds as though your husband is seeing a mobile baby and thinking he's a little boy. He isn't. He's a baby. Doing what they are designed to do. You can't (and shouldn't) interfere with that. Toddlers are incredibly hard work because they need constant supervision. With my first, I was eager for them to crawl and walk. Second, and the longer it takes the happier I will be. You can't smack a toddler into older-child behaviour. You just have to wait for their development to catch up with their abilities. They want to jump in rivers, as soon as they can walk, and you can't explain why that's a bad idea. You just stop them doing it.

You also need to talk through smacking before the kid is old enough to have that seen as legitimate by anyone. Right now, it's not about to be approved of at all by any person who knows anything about children. A bit older, and you'll have a disagreement.

I'd read up on smacking and work out how you feel, and then talk it through with your husband now, before it's an issue. Personally I don't like smacking because I think it teaches kids to obey from fear of pain, rather than to self-regulate and develop a conscience. A smacked kid is hurt, angry and humiliated, not reflecting on what they did and why they shouldn't have done it. And there's also the fact that you teach a child that someone can love them and still hit them to make them do what they want. Then we expect them to reach 20, start a relationship, and walk out the first time someone raises their hand to them... and never to raise their hand to their partner themselves. It isn't a mixed message that sits well with me.

But it is currently legal to hit your child, and lots of perfectly nice people do do it. As I say, you and your DH need to talk this one through now, before it becomes an issue. Because at this age, hitting isn't just wrong, it's completely pointless and bonkers.

Also, Bertie Botts is spot on in her advice IMO.

Haven't read the full thread but all you're teaching him is to smack others by smacking him.

Child proof properly and put him in a playpen for a time out if he won't stop doing something imo.

Brilliant idea TinyTears!! I'm going to try that if we ever have another DC :)

smacking is never the answer.

regarding sockets - in the uk. we have the safest sockets in the world
a toddler cannot get his fibger in it.
tgere is an extremely clever sgutter system whereby you hsve to put something tge exact size and shape of an earth pin into the earth hole to open them, then you haveto put something into the other holes at tthe same time to electrocute. a toddler could not be dextrois enough to do that.
incidentally, this very clever system is why socket covers are dangerous - they provide an earth-pin shape pin, if the toddler can remove the cover...

just be consistent, but smacking doesn't work, all it teaches is that smacking is a great way to get your own way.

He's only 13 months old fgs! Not like he's 3 or 4! He has no idea that what he is doing is even wrong, so it's not like he's doing it to be deliberately naughty. Sorry, but smaking a 13 month old that doesn't even understand, is absurd. He must stop this.

Move him away.... And away ..... And away ... And distract ... And repeat ... He's far too young to figure out what slaps mean(thankfully). Speak to your husband and work out how to deal with it together without smacking him!

the woodburner and oven thing...

I don't mnow quite how we did it, but we mabaged to get dd to ybderstand that hot was bad and therefore don't touch.
I think it was through food, actually - if she ate something that was too hot, she would have to spit it out, so she learned that hot wwas bad. (we made a big deal aboit the word)
we were able to apply that to the cooker etc.
and took advantage of it by telling her that dh's meat was "hot " because we're raising her vegetarian, and it worked on chocolate for a while

At this point I took DS away, sat him down and told him no, told him to say sorry to Daddy for being disobedient and then cuddles

OP, I still don't get why you did this. Did you think he'd understand? Or are you trying to appease your DH by asking your baby to "say sorry to daddy"?

Your little baby won't understand the concept of bad behaviour, disobedience or apologies for years yet. Meanwhile, your job as his parents is to keep him safe - move as much dangerous stuff as possible, be vigilant at all times, and learn to distract him. You need to use your ingenuity and energy to deal with this - smacking a 13 month old baby is cruel. Please remember he is still tiny.

13 months is too young to understand this. Life is a fun game, and he's a baby exploring!
My boy is 14 months now and has been trying to get into the cupboard under the sink since he could crawl at 8 months. I have never allowed him to get in there, I said no and removed him a couple of feet away and carried on. Sometimes he tantrumed and/or tried again but he soon got bored/distracted. I've just realised he hasn't tried it for about a fortnight, there's no point as he'll just get moved away. I use this for whatever else he's not allowed to do. He broke 4 of those shit cupboard locks so I gave up with those.

Also uk sockets are safer without the child plug which can actually be dangerous.

You need to have a chat with your DH about what kind of discipline you both plan to use. Personally I don't like the idea of having a soft and harsh parent. If one of us decides something isn't allowed, the other also doesn't allow it either.

thank you perfectstorm

I wrote a really long post about limit setting on a thread earlier so I'll C+P - other thread was for advice about a 3 year old but the general idea of how to do it is still relevant. I'd add for toddlers just starting to grasp language three top rules for communication (which is really what you want)

1. Simple. Never use five words when you can use four. Every word you add to an explanation is more that they have to process and understand before they can respond to it. STOP. is more effective than "Please don't do that".

1. Positive and direct. Tell them what you do want. If you hear yourself saying a sentence containing the words "no [something]" "stop" or "don't" then you've already used two or three more words than you need, AND you're giving them the mental image of whatever it is you don't want. Instead turn it around. "Don't spill it" becomes "Two hands", "Don't walk on the road" becomes "On the path".

1. Back every instruction up with an action - especially under 2 years old but continuing after this for problem areas. They don't inherently understand "no" or every language and culture in the world would have the same word for it. They will understand what it means when they make the connection that every time you say no, they get removed. Or even better, use the positive and direct instruction. "Feet first" "On your bottom" ("sit" is direct but feels like you're talking to a dog )

Echo what everyone else has said. It's about repeatedly removing him every time he touches the plug sockets and firmly saying no, then distracting him with something else.

Incidentally, what is your usual way of covering the plug sockets?

If you are using childproof socket covers, I would take them out and put them in the bin.

I think in the op you said DH 'smacked' his wrist gently but you overheard him saying he would keep doing it until DS stopped, which the third time he did due to surprise but not pain or hurt?
If that's right (and I've read it correctly) no I really don't think your DH is a monster. I think you are over reacting a little bit. And your attempts with DS sound far to wordy for a child that age. I'd think you need to find a middle ground between your two approaches.