To be annoyed at everyone who uses the parent and toddler parking who shouldn't?

[sunshinemeg]

I am prepared to be told I am being a twat, but it's really bugging me.

So many people get angry (quite rightly so) at people who are not disabled using disabled parking spaces. However it seems so many more people use the parent and toddler spaces who really shouldn't.

The signs variously state
-for parents with children under 5
-for parents with children in pushchairs etc

Why do I see people park with their children who then jump out and walk off without a pushchair, it drives me mad, especially when I am struggling with a 6 month old and limited space to open her car door or get a pushchair remotely close enough!

Indeed it is but in my experience of the now the reception children/year 1 children I work with every day are less road safety aware than kids of 10 years ago when I first joined the school.

Supermarkets are businesses that's why these spaces are generally recommended for P&C but not mandatory as are disabled spaces.

I would much rather see spaces designed for older less able people or more blue badge spaces.

A fit parent with fit children do not need priority parking. It's a gimmick.

Exactly Hamish it's a business decision, not a 'need' like disabled spaces. So saying that people who park in them without a child are a 'disgrace' etc is ridiculous.

If they're so essential how come there are always far more parents with small children in the supermarket than there are designated spaces. Presumably those parents managed to get their children out of the car and safely across the car park without special treatment.
I'm not saying they aren't useful to parents, but they would also be useful to the elderly, people recovering from surgery or illness, pregnant women etc. But those groups have to just get on and manage.

Sorry I meant elderly people or people recovering from illness, surgery etc

Yes agree vintage

The use of the word disgraceful is silly.

As a fit mum with at one time 4 kids under 10 I would have gladly given such a Space to a pregnant woman or to someone like my dm who is 81 and very frail and unsteady in her pins.

There are lots of things in life which aren't 'essential' but are nice to have and make our lives easier. That doesn't mean that they shouldn't exist.

The issue here is that some people take the piss. IME they are often other parents which is a shame. It IS awkward to lever a baby carrier out of a car when someone is parked close to the door. It's nice as a new mother to have a space a little closer to the supermarket. Nice, not essential.

I agree it makes parents lives easier, but at the expense of other people who could do with these spaces (eg elderly people) and I don't think that's particularly fair. I also don't think it justifies parents having a go at anyone else who dares to park in these spaces. And I think that's one of the problems with these spaces. Some parents have started to equate them in their mind with BB spaces and have become ridiculously precious and self entitled about them.

Indeed it is but in my experience of the now the reception children/year 1 children I work with every day are less road safety aware than kids of 10 years ago when I first joined the school.

I doubt that's down to people using their car for the supermarket shop. People have less time now. Both parents often work, there's less time to get the essential household stuff sorted and cars are used to cut time here and there. People do need to get out and about on foot more though.

Was in Morrisons last night and there was a little sporty two seater in the P & C space next to us. Some bloke came out and my husband said 'Wow, you're really clever to get a baby seat in the back of there, doesn't the baby get squashed'. Made the bloke a bit embarrased and I had to laugh.

We parked in one last week. Just my DP and I. I'm recovering from spinal surgery, and was picking up controlled drugs from the supermarket pharmacy. I had to sign for them, so he couldn't get them himself for me. There were no spaces in the bit by the store, and we were going to have to cross the road for one, and he just went 'sod it - we're parking here'. The dirty looks subsided as he practically lifted me out of the car!

I agree it makes parents lives easier, but at the expense of other people who could do with these spaces (eg elderly people) and I don't think that's particularly fair.

Elderly people aren't big spenders at the supermarket, so it doesn't make business sense to provide spaces for them. As I understand it, supermarkets often only provide the legal minimum number of disabled spaces for the same reason.

P&C spaces aren't at the expense of anyone. If they didn't exist then the elderly wouldn't have any preferential access to the spaces either as it would be a free for all.

I might get flamed but I used one yesterday at aldi's when I had no children with me.

There was only one other parking space I couldn't squeeze in.

I never used them when my kids were little and we managed fine. They are useful but I don't get the anger over other people using them.

Thats not end of world.

People also often think disabled spaces are fair game if no other spaces though..especially at night when traffic wardens clock off..gives me the rage.

Hamish they are at the expense of others because they're specifically reserved as P&T spaces, making them inaccessible to the elderly and other groups who have an equal need.

However, I do feel and exception should be made for those who have a blue badge and also need the extra space. If all disabled spaces are full, I feel it is ok for those who need it to use it.

If someone has a blue badge they can park where the fuck they like as long as they are not causing an obstruction. If the P&C spaces are more accessible as Dawndonna's DD has found, then of course they they can use them.

You cannot compare the two situations, parent with small child or blue badge holder there is no comparison!

Can I just point out, as I always seem to have to on these threads, that it is not 'illegal' to park in disabled spaces in a private car park. In fact it is exactly the same legal position as someone using P&C spaces without kids. It is a matter of contract law, and whether you abide by the terms and conditions set out by the landowner.

Morally speaking, obviously parking in a disabled space is not comparable. But legally it is pretty much the same.

For all those people who have never seen a supermarket car park completely full, I assume that you don't live in West London - most of the car parks round us (Twickenham) are full by about 9.45/10am and remain that way until 5ish. Lots of people drive in from the countryside, then leave their cars here and get a train into London. Also, the multi-story supermarket car park nearest to me that I use regularly has such small spaces, and such a large number of shoppers who have massive cars, that there is often not physically space to open a door and lean in to do up seat belts. If not in a mother and child space I have to get the kids to squeeze in the back, and then shout instructions at my eldest to try and get him to do up his little sister's belts. Or, I have them in the car without belts on, then reverse out of the space, leap out and do up belts. Neither is ideal. So YANBU, this drives me nuts too.

And all the people who are like 'well the spaces aren't enforced by law, so why the heck should people leave them for mothers with small kids' - well because if we just did the legal minimum for each other socially wouldn't life be miserable? If I blanked a child on the bus who was trying to engage me in conversation about his toy, if I allowed my kids to take all the sweets from the pinata because the other kids were smaller and slower, if I saw a disabled person struggling to pick something up they had dropped but refused to help . . . well what's to stop me, there's no law against it . . . but I'd be a crappy person creating a crappy society. And I put people who park in P&C spaces when they are child-free in that category of people who are making life crappier for others.

YANBU. It pisses me off. It took me a long time to recover from the birth (still am) and hobbling an extra few metres was very uncomfortable. Having the car a bit closer really helped. I have almost always managed to get a space but it is the height of rude to park in a spot for parent and child parking because you are running in with your two mates to buy a four pack or fags or whatever. It is a nice idea by shops to give a bit of help when shopping with kids.

Those who see no problem with it and who are such perfect specimens of humanity to have no need for such things and can juggle their children in one hand whilst carrying a monthly shop in the other just as they did in the 70s should moan to Tesco or whoever instead of bitching on here. They put a sign there for a reason. You either respect that or use your own two legs to walk the extra distance.

A lot of posts on this thread have made me laugh but this is the best one:

"BUT in all likelihood the people who park in P&C spaces when they don't really need to are the same ones who would leave litter, not pick up dog poo, drive while drunk, and generally act like a selfish thoughtless arse".

Yes, all people who nip into a P&C space are probably drunk drivers as well. Totally logical. There is no moral difference between the two acts whatsoever

livingzuid my sister parked in one when she was bringing me to the shop a fortnight after I'd had major surgery. According to an angry mum I had no right to be there because they weren't for me and I should have taken up a disabled space instead

Hamish they are at the expense of others because they're specifically reserved as P&T spaces, making them inaccessible to the elderly and other groups who have an equal need.

They aren't inaccessible though are they? As so many people have pointed out, anyone can use them.

"And I put people who park in P&C spaces when they are child-free in that category of people who are making life crappier for others." [Quote]

And I put those people who insist that certain spaces by the door should be reserved for them and them alone, regardless of the needs of others, in that category of people who are making life crappier for others.

Yes, but people on here are saying that they should not be used by anyone other than P&T Hamish. I agree that others should be able to use them as well.

I can only say what I do and I don't use P&C spaces any more because I would rather leave them for people with younger children. I found them useful (not essential) when mine were babies and think it's taking the piss to use them if you have older children.

Of course anyone can use them and their rational for doing so is their business. Personally, I wouldn't do so if I had any other option.

I agree with you, but a lot of people have a go at anyone without children parking in these spaces. They're breeding this sense of entitlement in some parents who really do seem to think they're akin to BB spaces and I find that very annoying. I have no compunction about parking in them if I have my elderly mother with me and there are no other spaces that near the door.

Parking spaces are pretty the same size - 2.5m by 5m - as mandated by planning. Some authorities might specify slightly bigger. Parking spaces are not getting narrower. But there do seem to be more wider cars around.