To think there's a worrying number of people who are under the impression that Local Authority housing is free?

[MrsWinnibago]

I've read things on MN a few times which make me realise that some people seem to be under the impression that if you live in a council house or a housing association house then you don't pay for it.

They seem to think that people in these properties get full housing benefit as some kind of default!

Am I wrong? Please tell me I'm wrong. It's a minority of people who think this yes?

no housing is free except prison.

council house, rental, mortgaged, bought outright - all houses cost money.

The vast majority of new council and HA tenancies, in overpopulated areas such as the south east, go to people in priority need. It's very hard to be found in priority need if you work, as you will be forcibly steered into private rental. Therefore there is a perception that you have to be out of work and homeless to get social housing. This is a result of there being far too few social houses to meet demand.

Eric that's simply not true. We both work but could not get together a deposit in two months for a house. Yes of course we got our deposit back from our old rental but it took much longer than you might imagine and was not nearly enough to cover a move to a new private rental when you account for the rip off fees charged for an APPLICATION by letting agents. Some were charging 200 pounds just for us to apply for one...and that didn't mean we'd get it...and no...the money wasn't refundable.

So...even with two adults both in work, you still end up as priority need. We did.

Sorry, I'm being thick here. It's late and my brain isn't working. My cousin and Aunt used to live in a council house when I was a mid, then she bought it. I did think the house was free - sorry...

I really don't mean to offend anyone - please, please don't flame me (I've already had a bad day)

If the HA houses aren't "heavily subsidised" what is the benefit to living in one?

Also, how do you get on the list? It's basically if you're homeless is that right? So you could be an accountant in the city, but your house was repossessed as your in debt. So you earn 100k a year, but are homeless, so you could still get an HA house - is that right? It's not just those on benefits.

Or have I got that completely wrong. Sorry I hope I haven't offended anyone.

They're not subsidised for the reasons listed above, but they are a lot cheaper than private lets - for example, my sister lives near me and pays £900pcm for a 1 bedroom (nice) flat. We pay roughly £650pcm for a 3 bedroom (not bad) council flat.

How you get on the list now, put in an application with your LA. How do you get to the point of being offered a property? Desperation, homelessness, in medical need and that's about it (in London anyway). I think I was very very lucky - we were probably the last wave of people not to be in dire straits (living with MIL, had gone on the list at 18 just because and were offered a flat 8 years later)

You aren't means tested, no, but it's not an instant thing. You'd go into shitty temporary accomodation in a hostel or B&B before you were given a property. You'd have to be a masochist or morbidly tight or have ridiculously high unbreakable outgoings to earn 100k and still jump through the hoops to get a council place. Far easier to rent privately.

Nancy the benefit is that you have a secure tenancy for life. Not everyone is in a position to buy a house...but everyone...or almost everyone, wants a place they can call home. A place they can stay in forever.

A council house offers this chance.

A private rental can be taken away with 2 months notice.

You can't get on a list unless you have been given notice in your current tenancy in my county. So you're not exactly homeless but there's a high risk of that happening.

In the not so distant past, anyone could get on the waiting list. Not now.

And no...in my county they want to know your earnings. So if I had 100k a year I would not be offered a council house because I could buy a house on that...or I could pay the deposit on a private rental if I'd been made bankrupt...I'd still have my wages.

As it stands, many people on low wages can't save anything and it costs a lot to rent privately even before you're offered a house.

I realise that ha houses are not free (although for years I thought they were) but sil was given a council flat and as she didn't work her rent is paid for. So technically the flat is not free as one department is paying another department for it...but for sil it is free. She was given it and does not pay anything for it.

Oh and other benefits to social housing (sorry Nancycracker, didn't read thoroughly), tenancy for life as long as you pay your rent, more freedom to personalise your home than private, generally better at repairs etc (you get some lovely private landlords, but that's offset by the absolute bastards who live to make their tenants lives miserable and rake in as much money as possible - google UK slum landlords)

MrsW, in my area you simply wouldn't be in priority need if you are in work (assuming no disabilities etc) and I know how horrible private renting is, doesn't change the fact that in heavily populated areas with high housing costs you will not get priority need. The criteria where I am for band A is unintentionally homeless and in temporary accommodation, severe medical issues, social services nomination, exchange (downsizing) and various other very specific criteria. You wouldn't qualify.

That's a change then MrsWinnibago. We've never given our LA details of income although when we transferred to our current flat (5 years ago) they did take our employer details iirc.

Nancy - they aren't subsidised directly, but the rents are typically far lower than the standard rent for a similar property locally.

Other advantages are tenancies are for life basically, not the standard 6 months of private rental market - it's safe and secure, no having to move every years or so at landlord whims. Councils often maintain the properties and communal areas of flats to a higher standard than landlords at the bottom end of the rental market.

For a long time, housing benefit was paid directly to landlords, including council properties, so while there were various bits of paperwork, if you never earned enough to stop being able to claim hb, then it was in effect a free house.

There are council waiting lists, it used to be (until the 70s I believe) more of a "first come, first served" list, but then it moved to those in most need. Anyone, including Richard Branson, is entitled to go on the waiting list for their area, but as properties are allocated based on need and in many areas there are a shortage, only those most in need will get one (and if you are "most in need" there's a good chance you'll be entitled to housing benefit).

The reason you occasionally find wealthy people living in council properties is that they got the property when their situation was much worse, then the secure tenancy means they can't be thrown out because they aren't the most in need anymore.

Ehric no I'm sure I wouldn't....I've read about the shocking state of things in London. But I live in a relatively well off NW town. Where things aren't so bad. There is a shortage of housing but it's not nearly as unmanageable.

Very Stressed your sil hasn't been "given" the flat. It's hers to live in at the moment. Also her rent would have also been paid in private rental. Would you then say she had a "free house" if the house belonged to a private landlord?

No. Because it's not hers. Neither is the council flat she lives in.

I thought they were free until I read on mumsnet that they aren't.

I'm not right wing, I'm not a frother and I've never read the daily mail.

I'd just never met anyone who lived in one and thought that council houses were housing that was providing for people who otherwise wouldn't be able to afford to live anywhere and would end up homeless or in hostels.

I thought they were a good thing though, not that people were scrounging. I was just very naïve, not intentionally offensive.

God.

My privately rented house is in a lovely village and I pay less than my local authority next door neighbours. Much less.

MrsWinnibago yes I understand that but at the same time the council called her to say there was a flat for her, she moved in and doesn't pay them anything. It might not be hers, in that she owns it but it's 'hers' as no one is going to ask her to leave it.

" If the HA houses aren't "heavily subsidised" what is the benefit to living in one? "

Because they are much cheaper obviously- but that isn't necessarily the same thing at all as being subsidised.

If you need a loaf of bread it's much cheaper to go to Asda and buy a Smart Price sliced white than it would be to buy an organic spelt loaf from the artisan bakery round the corner. Doesn't mean Asda's shareholders are subsidising you tho.

VeryStressedMum...so what? is it a bad thing that she's been given accommodation that's secure for her and her children?

Yes Giraffe it's not always the case that council houses rent at a "much lower price" than private. We don't pay that much below local asking prices.

MrsWinnibago - was that 'God' directed at me? I don't think it's such a very unusual or unreasonable thing to think if you've never had any reason to know anything about council housing is it? And thinking it certainly doesn't mean you think council housing is a bad or an unfair thing.

It wasn't so much directed at you. More of a "God" in that this is what people must think of me and my family.

That we're so useless we could not provide a home for our children and so had to be offered "free" housing.

It's very disheartening.

It properly irritates me when people insist social housing is subsidised. Subsidised by who exactly?

The world is full of thick people is all it says.

I know. It's like saying people in social housing don't pay council tax! I probably pay a lot more than many home owners due to my postcode.

I know that social housing is just housing, that lots of people pay full rent on the property and work full time jobs etc etc... I know that. But I don't know anyone in social housing that this applies to. In this area there are a hell of a lot of cash in hand only workers, full benefits, quite dodgy... I can see why lots of people would think social housing = free housing if they haven't really experienced anything else, or considered it a topic worth investigating.

I couldn't afford to rent. I feel privileged that we managed to buy our little semi and pay less in mortgage than next door who private rent - the same house for nearly double our mortgage!! They in turn feel aggrieved that the house next to them don't have to pay anything at all for the same house. Looking at the three of us we have it best long term, the council tenant has it best short term, the private renter in between us is royally fucked, sadly. I can understand why they get pissed off... its displacement for their seemingly unfair lot in life with the housing machine! not that its my fault, or the council tenants fault.. arse on fence