All degrees are the same?

[thebluehen]

I don't have a degree, my dp has an HND. We have teen kids who are aspiring to go to Uni.

He keeps telling them that a degree is a degree and they should stay at home and go to the nearest ex poly.

I disagree and think that they should go to the best university they can, wherever that may be.

After all, surely no one would aspire to Oxbridge if all degrees were the same?

But I don't have a degree, so maybe I don't understand. Sigh.

You've probably just hit the nail on the head when you said that it's like he doesn't want his children to do better than him.

Could it also be that he's worried about helping them financially if they are away from home?

Degrees are not all the same, even degrees in the same subject are not considered the same, but you know that so hopefully between you and your children's school, you will be able to get your dc to see sense.

IMO the course matters but the Uni less so, I did my BSc at a RG Uni but actually found once I'd graduated that the equivalent course at the local former poly seemed to have far better links with employers and their staff had been more pro-active in finding students work placements. I consider A-levels as a better indicator of academic ability than which Uni a candidate went to as with the costs of Uni spiralling people often have to factor in accommodation and fees. I think the best thing students can do is to get some relevant experience in the field they aspire to work in, if staying at home would facilitate this then I'd favour it.

No, of course all degrees aren't the same. Different institutions and subjects bring different opportunities and prospects.

Some poorer universities have outstanding departments for particular subjects. Some leading universities are poor in some areas.

But, in general, most people know which universities are better than others and react accordingly.

Is he a bit of a bully?

They are not all the same. However, an Oxbridge degree does not necessarily guarantee more success and happiness than one done at a less prestigious university, especially if they are more likely to feel economic inequality very keenly.

It does make a difference, but how much if a difference does depend on what you want to do and what subject.
I went to a RG uni, not that I knew this until years later on MN and my degree is in English, I am not sure it had made much difference to me personally but that isn't the case for many people, and also the issue sounds more to do with him encouraging them to lower their aspirations!

it's not just about employability and future happiness (whatever that might be?) but the quality of the teaching, the exciting research opportunities, the sharpness of your peers and the overall experience isn't it

Agree it depends on the course as well as the uni.

Maybe out of date now but when I was at uni Teesside uni was the best animation course. I had a friend who studied animation there and went on to work for Jim Henderson.

I'm sure there will be other courses where a not so well thought of uni will actually provide a better course than the "better" uni.

They need to decide what subject they're interested in, then research the different unis which offer it. There's websites now with ratings for stuff like student satisfaction, employability, etc......be careful though because % employed after 6 months could well include those working at Pizza Hut. Look at course content, module options, how they're assessed.

Hmm, a bad example then backforgood - I originally thought of medicine but you don't need a medicine degree for that either - you can get in with biology and a couple if friends are now medical doctors after doing physics!

I was trying to say (badly) that it depends in what you want to do and that should be decided before where.

There's definitely a difference between purely academic subjects and more applied/ vocational degrees. For example, if you want to do history or English and can get into Oxbridge, then I'd say "Go and dont look back", but for engineering there are probably better options.

And I say it on all these threads but I'll say it again- If you want to be an accountant, dont do an accountancy degree. Complete waste of time. It counts zero towards an accounting qualification beyond a few credits in the first lot of exams and the top firms prefer you not to have one. Do a straight academic subject at the best uni you can get into and then apply for a post grad training contract.

Hmm, I was a module coordinator on an accountancy course a few years ago. Our students did a year in industry and over 70% of them were offered graduate training schemes by their placement employers (including the big four). Many accountancy firms offer graduate training places to non accountancy graduates but they always snap up the accountancy graduates first IMHO.

Um you do need a medical degree to be a doctor, but you can go into a compressed course with a normal degree.

But beyond that, as others have said its about the combination of type of uni and degree. A friend started a degree in London, very academic and respected course. He hated it. Switched to Brunel which suited him down to the ground in terms of feel and course content (much more hands on) and he's done really well with it.

What do your DC want to do?

My DS looked at a number of unis last year, including traditional RG. He paid particular attention to employability skills and links with industry as he wanted to do a sandwich year. The uni he started at this week (which he firmed as soon as his 5 offers came through) is an ex poly which was originally, on paper, going to be the 5th choice until he went on the open day. He was blown away by the course, the opportunities they made available, the feel of the uni. turned out it is also ranked far higher than many traditional unis

I also told my 6th form tutees and I now have experience to go with your feelings, what you want out of uni and not just the name

Another point is that they are going to spend 3 years doing this thing and it will cost money. How gutting to have to pay back a student loan for a degree or university that you knew at the outset wasn't right for you.

You're right, he is wrong. It is harder to achieve a 2.1 at say Oxbridge than at a middle of the table institution. My weekly workload was equal to monthly workloads of friends at other decent unis. There is a difference, of course there is.

If they're at an age when they're seriously thinking about going soon to university then please look at the Times Good University Guide 2015, which is very comprehensive on scores on student satisfaction, teaching, percentage of firsts/2:1's, drop out rates, research quality and what percentage of students are in professional or non-professional jobs after graduating. There's also subject tables to search for.

My FIL is very controlling and hates that his son (my h) has achieved more than he did. He's never been proud of his achievements or said well done, and it has completely ruined the relationship between them. If your DH goes down this road, it could well ruin his future relationship with your DCs.

He's wrong. Also, most parents actively want their children to do better than they did and would see this as a sign of their success as parents.

Your DCs are going to need to learn about how to seek out and assess information to help them make their choice. They are also going to need to learn to ignore 'advice', based on ignorance, from your DP.

Will he try to control the purse strings to limit their choices? You'll need to think about how to handle that and, do research with your DCs so you know they're making good decisions likely to work out well for them and can help make this case for them as necessary.

I think you need to get out of seeing how your children do as reflecting your 'success' as a parent! There are lousy parents who have children at Oxbridge.
You need to support your child in what they want to do and help them find out the best place for it. They are not all the same- research, research, research and the DC needs to be the one doing it (with support)

He is right if your dc are considering a course such as medicine, dentistry or nursing as they are highly regulated by external agencies.

Otherwise YANBU. Your dc should look at the opportunity to do industry placements and sandwich years. I did a traditional course at an RG uni whereas my 3 friends did much more vocational courses at ex polys. I would say we all earn roughly the same and have done well for ourselves. This was 20 years ago though. Your dc should not limited themselves to going locally but they should also look carefully at the course and opportunities offered rather than the whole uni reputation.

Frankly, the expansion of universities has meant that many institutions are offering courses that are extremely poor value for money and an utter waste of time for the young people.

It is completely outrageous.

all degrees are not the same

but

imagine a bog standard employer, not one that only recruits from the top unis
they just advertise '2:1 or above' and dont pay much attention to the uni attended
it is waaaay easier to get a first at some unis (or, it is easier for someone with average a level grades to get a first)
so you have to weigh it up really, also factoring in money saved by living at home vs possible grants if low income family studying at top uni etc

Speaking of employability, it makes a difference how the degree is assessed too. Some courses are almost entirely coursework, not exams. This would be more understandable for a practical assessment subject but for anything else it says too much about the institution and the quality of students it caters for. I'd be more interested to interview a 2:1 obtained through examinations than a 1st from coursework.

Your kids need to get good careers advice outside of the home. Is their school good? Could you talk to them? Tell their guidance teacher that you didn't go to uni and ask for a bit extra support for your kids in their ucas process. Any good school would be happy to help out

It depends on what they want to do- if it is something 'modern' and vocational, eg IT, technology, business, marketing etc a former poly can be as good, if not better as often they are more focused on what you can do with the degree afterwards provide plenty of work experience, internships, modules directly related to practical things you'll find yourself doing in work, have good connections with relevant companies etc.
If they want to study something like law, accountancy, you need to opt for the best uni you can, or certainly one on a higher 'tier'. Similar for more general subjects like English, history, languages.
I went to an 'old' uni for an arts degree, and the department very much sat in their ivory tower with no interest in how to put the expensive degree to use afterwards. However as the uni had a certain cache, I've been able to trade on that rather than the specific content of my degree.