to think its their job to notice ?

[ExpectedlyMediocre]

My DS just started full time school , there was an incident on the playground where an older child strangled him and he started crying. He was very withdrawn when I picked him up, and told me at home, he admitted he didn't tell a teacher and I reminded him that he needs to in future. But i was unnerved a high level incident like that wasnt noticed. I rang up school and HT rang back we discussed, when i brought up the lack of supervision considering you cant really sneakily strangle someone, i got the same kind of defensive party lines when something similar happened to my DS and other kids by an older 'troubled soul' i.e then can only be in one place, theres a high level ratio per child/adult all are checked properly and are decent hardworking people, whilst i.am sure she hadn't hired Rose West to man the primary school singlehandedly , that its not really the point..its their job? Its like an inadequate policeman going 'well you cant expect us to solve all crime can you?'

Is this the same child all the time? And if so, are the school aware of the previous incidents?
If that is the case then yes, I would expect them to do something to avoid a repetition.
It sounds like your DS is being targeted and that needs to be investigated .

In my experience school lunchtimes are woefully understaffed, and you're lucky if you get halfway decent communication between teachers/TAs and lunchtime controllers.

A huge amount of responsibility is put on people who often have no training, are low paid and are seriously undervalued.

So while YANBU to think that school lunchtimes should be better run than they are, YABU to think that it's a lunchtime controllers job to see everything that's going on, at the same time as helping children cup up lunches, clean things away, open packed lunch things, monitor what children are eating, enforce good table manners, keep track of who's gone in to use the toilet, deal with the constant big and small problems that children tell them about, deal with the negative behaviour that they do see, deal with children who are looking left out, and talk to the children that just want to come up to them for a chat.

It does sound really off that there have been so many incidents. I would be asking if they can make an extra effort to supervise given that he seems to be being targeted by another child and they are now aware of this.

I think it is hard to concentrate on everyone in a busy playground, and they tend to hide away if planning to do something bad. My Ds1 was strangled in the toilets by a boy in his class at break. The school did not tell me, ds1 told me 2 weeks later. My mum gave ds1 and dd cookies at lunchtime through the gate as she did not know it wasn't permitted, and three staff members told her off within 3 minutes, because she had been in full view.

Your poor DS, strangling sounds pretty terrifying and extreme, I don't know how significant the incident was, did your child have marks on his neck? I guess I'm asking because sometimes mine use language that implies something more serious than what actually happened. It would seem to be quite disturbed behaviour if an older child (how old was the other child OP?) was strangling a six year old. I agree that those on playground duty can't watch everything that goes on but if any children are known to have previously shown this kind of aggression then it's reasonable that a closer watch is kept on them. Giving selective attention to certain children would, I imagine, prove the most effective strategy for preventing this kind of incident.

Your poor DS i hope he is ok.
YANBU for wanting staff to look out for your son considering he is being bullied but they have to look after so many kids that they will inevitably miss things. There were 440 kids in DS's ms school and there is no way the staff could see every incident that occurred.
FWIW DS used to have full time 1:1, including breaktimes, as he has SN and still things got missed. He still got punched and kicked because the kids would do it in toilets or around corner where staff couldn't see. Equally DS used to manage to get away with battering and strangling other kids. Luckily these incidents weren't regular and most breaktimes would be fine but it still happened! The LSA would be out on the playground but other kids would go up and have a chat with him. It only takes a split second for an incident to happen.

I would speak to the HT and ask if the staff can keep an eye on your DS. Also check that the HT is punishing the bullies, they shouldn't be allowed to get away with it.

I can completely understand how you view it as a high level incident, but if you have ever watched a primary school playground, it basically looks like a Where's Wally image of misdeeds. One child with an arm round another might be strangling them, but there could be five other groups hugging, playing horses, jumping on one another and generally appearing to be maiming each other in the course of a game that they are all actually enjoying.

Assuming that at least one of the supervisors is probably being asked/told/involved in some other incident (scraped knee, broken pencil, row over the rules of a game) and the other four are scanning the playground for incidents, it is easy to see how things can go unnoticed, which is why children need to be crystal clear on telling someone if they are hurt.

My son and his friend managed to crash heads and both have egg-sized lumps while her mother and I were sitting less than a meter away, and we still have no idea how we did it. It is understandable that you are unhappy that nothing was done, but it might help to separate your concern about your son's injuries and potential bullying threat from your realistic expectations of how much a play ground supervisor can see.

Surely they are monitoring a finite space - so the staff manning playgrounds at break should ensure that they position so that all areas of the playground is covered - surely such an incident would cause a noise or disturbance?

Exactly what DoJo said. I'm sorry to say yabu when you must be so stressed, but they really can't watch everyone.

Of course it causes a noise. With 250 kids on the playground how are you supposed to hear it!

I'm frankly amazed that anyone thinks a couple of teacher can see EVERYTHING that happens on the playground at all times. It's so obviously impossible.

Kids come over and report stuff to you. That's how you know what's happened. Then you deal with it. The very odd thing you will see first hand.

If a kid doesn't report it, and another kid who sees it doesn't report it, then how are you supposed to know it's happened?

The suggestion that a teacher is a fault for not seeing something with her own eyes is beyond stupid.

Maddening
What if they have to talk to a child or bend down and do up a shoe lace or are referring a disagreement?
Or should they all have a watch tower at each corner of the yard
With sniper rifles to stop the bad behaviour

Ps rather than ask whether they should have noticed your conversation with the ht should be along lines of what they plan to do in what sounds like an acceleration of violence and if this child is known for aggression should the staff be keeping more of eye on him in the future.

If it was a one off you would just want them to discipline - within their own policy - the child responsible but now this is part of a run if incidents from this child - and they have been reported, albeit after the event, so now they need to show that they have a plan to keep your dc safe while in their care.

I guess I am remembering my own school but there was only 60 in the school and a tiny playground - numbers of 250 sound scary!

Not to mention that supervisors are pretty much powerless to do anything anymore; the lack of respect for them from parents and, I'm afraid, often the management team too filters down to the children who blatantly ignore the LTSs or worse (and I have heard this) tell them, "you can't tell me what to do, you're not a teacher or anything proper" . When I was a child I would never have spoken to ANY adult the way I hear some children speak to LTSs ( and yes, I do pull them up on it!)

I quit as a dinner lady - sorry Mid Day Supervisor a couple of years back due to parent's unrealistic expectations with the cover the school provided.

440 kids and (a max of) 6 staff who had to cover
2 sittings in the hall
and the playground
and clean up
and do first aid,
and open satsumas, yoghurts and babybels,
and clean up spills and puke,
and clean bottoms and find fresh pants for accidents -
and give a little hug when someone was sad,
and get the hoop out of the tree (again)
and listen to what x did to y from 5 different viewpoints
and tell a that b was not being mean - a just did not want to play lets all jump on a
and then clean up the hall ready for afternoon classes, whilst still supervising outside play..

was fun, and hectic WHEN NOTHING WENT WRONG, but when it did all we got was

"Well, why weren't YOU watching my child"

Have you ever done playground duty?

Would it be reasonable for every parent of every child to 'phone and ask what their child did every minute at break?.

Because if they should have been noticing your child every minute then every child should be noticed every minute shouldn't they?. I think that's impossible isn't it?!!.

Sorry your DC has been hurt though.

A ' Where's Wally image of misdeeds ' lol. Excellent. About the best description of yard duty I have ever heard!

Op, yabu. It's up to your child to report an incident. Supervisors cannot be everywhere or see everything .

Poor police, needlessly getting a bashing in a badly thought out analogy...

Thanks for replies will come bk and read properly.

I hadn't properly read your second post - sorry. It sound like these incidents are very serious and involve the same older child. In that case I'd be raising, written, safeguarding concerns and wondering whether the older child needed closer supervision. It's unacceptable that your child should have to go to school everyday with the fear that something like that may happen to him again. Hope this gets resolved soon.

Thank you Pud, yy erm i totally get dinnerladies cant see everything im not ringing up over a slap, nip, kick even a punch, these are v serious incidents, im.a bit surprised at some posters saying its only serious to me , cuz' its my son to clarify the treehouse, sandpit, hair incidents were all one kid, this new incident is another, I really want to nip this in the bud. He does have mild ASD so his social awareness is slightly off kilter, I think I will have to like some posters suggested, ask about future prevention and closer supervisionx

Sorry again, the offending boy must be at least 6 my DS is 4

It's always upsetting when your child gets hurt in this situation, so I understand why you are upset. Can you encourage your son to tell a teacher or supervisor in future? Maybe slowly work on it with him, going to school is a big adjustment. I know quite a few schools have an early years playground only which I think can help with children feeling overwhelming.