To think my Aunt holds undue influence over DM.

[Juanita4590]

NC as this could out me.

I feel like my DM has got herself into a position where she's terrified of my Aunt. I want to help her but she isn't scared of me!

My aunt is quite a controlling person and likes everything done her way. DM is quite regimented too, but she's much more sensitive and just wants everything to be nice.

This means that a lot of the time, she's terrified of doing things that will upset my Aunt. Their parents are getting old and infirm and they have to sort a lot of things between them. My aunt expects DM to fall in line with whatever she wants and will be incredibly personal and nasty to DM if this doesn't happen.

A couple of weeks ago, DM was unable to take DGM shopping at the weekend due to prior commitments (she was looking after DNephew as DSis was working). DGM (who understood perfectly) asked my aunt if she could go with her instead. This was not my mum's suggestion and DGM didn't need essentials, only a trip out. DM had no idea that DGM had even spoken to my aunt.

My aunt phoned my mum up and had a MASSIVE go at her. It was an incredibly personal attack, far beyond the scope of the misunderstanding. She criticised my mum's job, her cooking, her marriage and even the fact that she had learned how to drive! (Aunt can't and this means they are closer as a family because Uncle has to ferry them everywhere apparently)

DM was left shellshocked. She doesn't do confrontation and didn't say anything back other than to defend herself and say that Aunt had it all wrong. Since then, she has been very tearful and not been able to sleep. She's not angry with my aunt though. She just wants to make everything all right again.

Personally, even before this I have said I am not keen on aunt and cousins. They can be incredibly rude and selfish and despite being in their 30s, my cousins are like a pair of sulky teenagers who barely speak. They both live at home, have never had relationships and do nothing independently. Uncle takes them to and from work and they don't even go to the hairdressers or on interviews without my aunt with them. This is what my aunt thinks of as being a close family. Because we all have our own lives and families and DM works full time, she is apparently neglectful of her family and selfish.

Both my DSis and I had significant birthdays this year and tbh I'm sick of my aunt and cousins expecting what amounts to a child's birthday party. Every birthday of mine, my DH and my DDs, they expect to come over, be fed party food, sit like four lumps on my sofa and then bitch about it all later.

DM wanted to organise something for my birthday so I said I'd like a nice lunch out with a couple of very close friends. DM was immediately terrified because I wanted to leave my aunt and cousins out. She wanted to insist that none of my friends put anything up on Facebook about it and that we couldn't call it a birthday party. She was so terrified that she wanted to do another "family" party at hers at her expense, just so that my aunt wouldn't feel left out.

Honestly, she was SO OVERJOYED when I said she could do that if she wanted. Literally skipping about and clapping her hands with joy.

DSis decided to do a meal out for her birthday too, only she relented to DM and invited Aunt and cousins too, only to get a rude and dismissive text to say that they didn't like her choice of restaurant and it "might" be my cousin's work Xmas dinner on that day (early November!) so they couldn't come. This is all because it deviated from what they think birthday celebrations should be. Honestly, one of my cousins has the same birthday party she has had since she was 1, she still has a bouncy castle in the garden and exactly the same party food they always do.

Between the text to DSis and the appalling way my aunt was on the phone to DM, I decided to cancel my family party. I've just had enough of seeing my mum upset and I can't pretend to like them any more. DM was terrified and wanted to vet everything I said to Aunt, making sure I made an appropriate excuse and letting her know before I made the call so she could be ready in case Aunt decided to phone her up and have a massive go at her. I also had to phone DSis and make sure we all had our stories straight.

Tbh, I've had enough of this. I don't want to pussyfoot round my aunt any more and worry about her feelings. I don't enjoy their company and much prefer family celebrations without them. DM says I must, for her sake, as she just can't handle confrontation. I think if she stood up for herself a bit more, Aunt wouldn't pick on her so much, but she insists this is impossible for her as she's just too sensitive.

DSis and I talked and decided, that as we are adults, we would throw our own parties, on firework night, for our DC and DM (as aunt's are too late for our DC and this can't possibly be changed) and that we won't be going to Aunt's at Christmas as expected. But DM burst into tears and said she couldn't handle the thought of saying no to my aunt about any of this and she made us feel like we were bullying her. She would honestly rather go over to my aunt's on bonfire night and miss it with her DGCs so as not to offend her.

My aunt has been super nice to her since the argument, BTW, which just puts me in the mind of an abusive relationship.

I know she doesn't enjoy going to my aunt's on these occasions, she just feels she has to so everything stays "nice". But it isn't nice and they aren't very nice people. If it was me she had spoken to like that, I wouldn't be trying to please her, I'd never speak to her again!

I realise that if this is an abusive relationship and DM isn't ready to break free then there is very little DSis and I can do. But I also don't want to enable it. DM is in tears every time I speak about doing something without my aunt because she just can't handle it.

Apologies for the length of this, but I realise it's quite complicated and didn't want to drip feed.

It sounds complicated. All I can suggest though is reassuring your mother you value her and asking what she wants. Make it clear you appreciate the way she raised you (independence, flexibility, assertivrness, caring all the adult things).
Be vocally proud of her achievement s and hope the penny drops. Unfortunately you might have to wait for another argument or more before the stark contrast occurs to her

While I can sympathise with your mother she is effectively insisting you and your sister also stay trapped in the abuse because she is too afraid to do anything about it. In the long run, stepping out of this odd dynamic is surely the best thing for all of you, including your mother.

I would say: no invitations to aunt, no pretence, don't do Christmas with them. That's the easy part. The more difficult part is what to do when your aunt attacks your mother over all this, as she probably will. I would probably go mad and give aunt a serious piece of my mind, but that's not necessarily the wisest course and perhaps other posters could think of a more constructive way to deal with it.

Maybe talk to your mother and try to unpack why she is so afraid of aunt's disapproval. Encourage her to distance herself in small ways as well.

But honestly, as adults and with families of your own you can't go on living as hostages to your aunt's bad temper.

Your aunt and her family sound like a right bunch f weirdos!!!
You are right, your mum is on an abusive relationship here and can only break free when she is ready ( if ever). The only thing you can do is not enable her or your aunt. You and your sister sound like you have got t all figured put so I would just do what you want and say to your mum that you are sorry but you will not be controlled by this woman.
It will be hard on your mum but the choice is she is EA to your mum or all of you.

What would happen if you and your Dsis stood up to your aunt?
Is your dad no longer around? What does your DGM think about it all? Is aunt abusive to her too?

I think a lot of my aunt's problems probably lay in the fact that DGM and DGD (who aren't together) are really proud of DM, who has a very good job working for the government and who is very organised and capable. DM does all their paperwork and sorted out their moves into sheltered accommodation etc, she is au fait with computers and is relatively well travelled, whereas my aunt, despite having done the same adult-edu classes as DM when we all grew up, has chosen to do a part time cleaning job, can't drive and is saddled with "childcare" for her adult children. She lives the same life she did 25 years ago as a SAHM.

One of the things she screamed at DM was that she was sick of hearing how busy she was from DGP. She said that after she finishes work (she does a couple of hours every morning, finishing before 9am), she has the overwhelming responsibility of coming home and looking after two kittens. This is while cousins lay in bed, BTW. I'd have laughed if someone said that to me, but it's made DM so fearful to talk about anything she does in her daily life to Aunt.

My dad is not on the scene any more, Nanny. My SD knows nothing of this and DM won't tell him because he would probably want to phone Aunt and tell her how horrible she is. DGM (in the nicest possible way) is a bit "away with the fairies" most of the time and isn't at all interested. She just falls in line with Aunt so doesn't get the same verbal abuse.

I think after a week of sobbing down the phone about it, DM is now regretting she told me about it too. Yesterday she told me I was "reading too much into it" when I said I thought aunt had form for bullying her. She just wants it all to go back to normal.

Teach mother to say:
"My daughters are adults and make their own decisions. please talk to them about this"
The tears are how Aunt Nasty manages you and you have to be a bit unkind to DM to get changes here.
Stand firm and tell DM that tears are for children not adults.
Do not let your plans be altered to what NA wants.
Give DM sympathy but do not give in.
Weird situation re NA family dynamic not normal or healthy.

So, can you tell your SD, and with him and your DSis confront your aunt?
Because I bet if you all stood up to her on behalf of your mum she'd back down.

Get your SD involved op.
Give your aunt a mouthful and distance is your best friend.
You and your dsis should run interference wherever you can and make it clear to your aunt her abusive behaviour is not going to be tolerated.
Maybe get your mum a couple of confidence books like A woman in your own right and toxic family.

If your SD knows nothing about this then presumably your DM isn't doing much of her crying around him? Sounds like she is used to using the tears to manipulate you & your sister. Sounds like you are going to have to take a tough love approach with her, also I second speaking to SD about the situation.

Would you consider going to a counsellor with your DM to talk all this through?

Also, get your SD involved. And you do need to stop pandering to it, even though it's hard. It is not your responsibility to protect your DM from your aunt and as long as you do, you're helping to sustain the whole situation - obviously you don't want to, it's just what's happening.

You aren't responsible for your DM or your aunt. I would explain, possibly with SD's back up, that you can't help perpetuate this any longer, you don't like seeing DM treated like this but you can't keep pussyfooting and placating your aunt as it's not helping.

Evidently these problems go way back and I'm not sure it can be changed but you can encourage your DM to stop tolerating the situation.

I do know what you mean OP - although to a different level as my aunt was very much like this, making snarky comments about everything I did that wasn't to her taste.

But I agree with her, of course I would just go and visit my nieces when in the area and not her, as all I got were snarky remarks and to be ignored when I went round so she is right. I turned it round so that my mother could agree, yes sister, you are right, she does just like to go and visit the nieces when she is over - that's because she drives 3 hours and goes to her brothers' house - what's so wrong about that. Have you driven 3 hours to hers, no - so what's the issue?

Your mum really needs an intervention of some sort. This cannot continue into old age. What would actually happen if she told her sister to sod off? Probably nothing, and she might find the abuse stops.

I think you should have a conversation with your DM along the lines of "You brought us up to be independent and forge our own relationships, Mum. As you know, I take issue with the way your sister behaves and I've decided that as far as I'm concerned I really don't want to have much to do with her any more. I know that she's likely to have a go at you, but can I ask you just to tell her that I'm adult now and you haven't any influence over decisions I make?" It might be a good idea to have SD present when you have the conversation - either a) she'll hold back on tears and hysterics or b) she'll weep and wail and he will see the extent of the problem.

Getting your sister in on The Talk might be a good thing (back-up for you, and she's not then having to bide her time to make a similar declaration) or not (your DM feels twice as bad). Either way, you are not responsible for your DM's relationships with anyone else as other posters have said.

I sympathise with you, having dealt with similar shenanigans in my own family!