To not sign on, despite being unemployed

[owlborn]

I’m trying to work out if DH and I are being U or just rather foolish.

DH was recently made redundant. So far he’s not signed on, and currently has no intention of doing so. We know that because I earn relatively good money and we have some savings we won’t get any money from them. He also signed on for a few months two and a half years ago, while we were separated (and as such didn’t have my income), and found it a nightmarish experience – the job centre insisted he apply constantly for jobs which were totally inappropriate, and then when he got an interview for a really good job in the industry he normally works in, they told him he’d be sanctioned if he went to it because it clashed with something else they had set up. He ignored them and went to the interview (and got the job) but they afterwards sent him a really mean spirited letter saying that although they couldn’t do anything to him because he’d now signed off, he had been sanctioned and this might affect him being able to claim benefits in the future.

As such, he’s really reluctant to go back and thinks he’d be better off just writing the whole thing off. I think this means he’ll have a gap in his pension contributions but I’m not sure how much of a disaster this is – hopefully it won’t be for long. Is there any other reason why he should be signing on? Would he even be able to sign on with this old sanction still hanging?

I’m aware of friends of mine who have signed on, despite not getting any money for it, and I have this feeling there’s something we’re missing.

I haven't signed on as I know I will get nothing, the jobcentre won't allow me to do the part-time course I've just started (I already have a teaching qualification but cannot be considered for a TA role locally as the level 3 qualification is essential). Nor would they support my voluntary work.
Also, with the shift going to having jobseekers 'in' for 35 hours a week after 6 months I'd have to pay for childcare as well as lose out on my study/ placement time.

If he's paid NI conts for the last two years he WILL be entitled to 6 months contribution based (i.e. not means tested) JSA which is £72 a week. So yes YA(both)BU.

Good point. I think we both forgot about contributions based JSA. Does anyone know if his outstanding sanctioning will affect that?

And will he have the same rules about volunteering/applying for inappropriate jobs/difficulties getting to interviews etc? God, I sound precious and I know that most people have no choice but to sign on. I also know we’re not so rich that we can just afford to ignore £72 per month. But then, we are lucky enough to be able to cover mortgage + bills + food without it, and I don’t know if the process of claiming JSA is likely to actually negatively impact on his job search – I’d almost rather suck up a couple of months of us living carefully while DH job hunts like a demon rather than deal with the job centre if they are basically going to suck his time and energy away and make the whole process last longer.

I am a SAHP and do not work in paid employment and do not sign on.

When my DH was made redundant, he did not sign on. We just lived off savings and redundancy money until he found another job. Not sure he even considered signing on. The plan was that we would down size and perhaps buy a business if he could not find (well enough paid) work.

He'll lose his contributions based JSA and NI contributions.

In theory he is allowed to only apply for jobs within his field for the first 3 months.

But, he is likely to be expected to jump through hoops to satisfy their processes. He is likely to find this frustrating and/ or stupid. Depends whether he is prepared to just nod and agree with them no matter how pointless he thinks their requests are.

I also know we’re not so rich that we can just afford to ignore £72 per month.

It's £72 per week, not per month. It's worth applying for contributions based JSA as he can always sign back off if he can't stand jumping through the various hoops and restrictive clauses.

What you are missing

Dh getting NI credits - what are your pension plans like?

Dh being counted as unemployed in the stats.

Do you want Cameron claiming unemployment is going down when it is actually people in your position cutting the figures.

What would happen if you were made redundant? If you were both claiming they could actually reduce what you get because you had not claimed when you could.

If you have been claiming and then get a job you are able to access things like budgeting loans and tax credits that you might not get otherwise.

I have no idea what your financial situation is and these things might not matter.

Its £72 per week and his contributions will cover future problems. If you were ill say. They are pushy horrible people in there but worth it for money and sick insurance etc. Tell him to laugh at their silly antics and make sure he looks like he is conforming to the rules. Hope it works out for you soon.

Depending in your political leanings it's worth signing on alone just so the ConDems can't keep pretending that unemployment is going down, when they really just mean that the number if people that have been stopped/put off from using the Jobcentre is bigger than ever.

I wouldn't sign on unless I needed the money. Soul destroying and desperate place. The amount is pretty offensive. If you had a decent job then its no safety net at all.

Seriously do people not sign on just because they are soul-destroying places? You turn up once a fortnight and are given almost £150 for doing so. Think of it as an hours work jumping through a few hoops - pretty good pay for an hour!

If you have more than 6,000 in saving he won't get contribution based JSA even though he should be entitled to it for six months. You have to wait until your savings have fallen below this threashold to be paid.

You can sign on without receiving JSA and still be counted in statistics and eligible for help with retraining and interviews, they also cannot sanction you if they aren't paying you any money.

It is really up to you and dh to decide if it is worth it, dh was made redundant recently and we didn't sign on, he had a new job within a month so we have been very lucky, hope your dh finds sometning good soon.

Agh I didn't realise you were supposed to do this. I am home with a toddler and haven't been signing on as DH earns 30k so I wouldn't get anything. I left work voluntarily though to look after the baby. Should I have gone in??

Do you have children under 12?If so put the child benefit in your dh name and he will still get NI contributions.

As far as I'm aware sanctions don't last very long anyway, not usually more than a couple of months but as someone already said if they don't actually pay you any money it won't matter anyway!

FWIW I think he should sign on, yes they are depressing and horrible places most of the time but it's worth doing for the extra £200 odd a month!

ignominouos - are you seeking a job? If so then yes. If not then no.

Sahp are usually covered by child benefit for thier NI contributions.

He is being silly not signing on £300 a month is a lot of money to missed out on.

Ignominious, I think you should only sign on if you are actually actively seeking work and are available to work, if you are a SAHP then you aren't looking for work :)

coffeethrow - you DO get cont based JSA even with savings for six months. The it goes to income based and savings will be looked at.
www.gov.uk/jobseekers-allowance/what-youll-get

For the purposes of a tax trail I would. I suppose his other option is to register as self employed but that means tax returns on 0 income for a couple of years I think.

Word to the wise, I signed on and back off in the space of two weeks when I relocated. In that time they told me I was entitled to nothing because I hadn't paid enough ni, despite working full time with no breaks since I left school. HMRC disagreed but it was a ball ache to get sorted.

It's common enough for it to be part of their standard letter template, so if nothing else it's best to get it sorted out when you don't need the money rather than at a point when you really do.

You don't just go in, you have to provide evidence of looking for x number of jobs a day, listen to their advice, discuss your employment history in an open office, be treated rudely as if you are scum by the person that signs you in, be forced to apply for shit jobs. Isn't worth 300 a month if you can avoid it.

No not looking as I'm looking after toddler. Will go back to it though and what do I do about gap in NI? That's covered by the child benefit?

I hate how JA works in this country, they seem to try to make it a demeaning and unhelpful experience. In Canada I received employment insurance (that is what it is called there) for a short time between jobs. There was a lot of paperwork up front but no having to show up in person for silly appointments or "prove" I was looking for a job or be sent to inappropriate interviews - they just let you get on with it. I really wish they would reform the system here.

It is sole destroying having to go in though. I used to have to psych myself up all week and then leave feeling like crap. And I think I had a sympathetic advisor.

Things that niggled

• you have to keep a record of what you've done. It has to fit their template, your own record won't do, even if your own record is more detailed and more useful

• you have to register with their jobs online thingy and then answer questions on why you haven't applied for jobs that it throws up, even if you are clearly unsuited to them

• they deal in numbers. So it is better to make 10 random applications a week, then 2 carefully crafted well tailored applications. I spent 2 days filling in a very detailed application form, a day attending the interview and a day planning the 30 minute presentation I had to give there. From a job centre point of view these 4 days were as valuable as sticking up a card in the newsagent's window.

• you have to commit to applying to anything within 90 minutes travelling time, even if it actually takes 3 hours on the roads you will have to use

• you must not miss any appointment ever for any reason however valid

Thank you all! Excitingly, this may all (fingers crossed) be a moot point as he’s got a second interview for a really great job (same field, more responsibility and better pay than his last job) on Wednesday, so I’ll pin my hopes on that. I think he’s probably better served focusing on interview prep today and tomorrow than dealing with the job centre.

You have all given me loads to think about. I guess it’s down to him at the end of the day – I absolutely agree with the poster who said it was badly run here. Last time he signed on he was told by his advisor (and I don’t know if this was bad advice – it might have been) that he had to apply for X jobs per week, and they had to be through the job centre website. So if he had a bunch of meetings with specialist recruiters and sent his CV off to organisations directly, that didn’t count. It had to be through this website. As a result, he wasted a lot of time doing token rushed applications for jobs he desperately didn’t want (he was made to apply for a job as a baggage handler at Heathrow. And there’s nothing wrong with being a baggage handler, but it isn’t what he does) and didn’t spend that time applying for jobs that he was actually qualified for. And I’m sure the people reading his application weren’t interested in him either.

It just seemed as if the whole process was actively designed to hinder him from getting a job. And whilst I totally accept that he may have been advised incorrectly, if you try and tell your advisor that their advice doesn’t make sense, you get into trouble for that. The only feedback DH ever got when he queried anything was ‘if you’ve got a problem, you’ll have to appeal’ which is another long drawn out process.

Having said that, there are good reasons for signing on. I guess he could give it a go and if he gets a particularly difficult advisor then we can just say he tried and he can sign off again without having lost anything.