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AIBU?

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Original poster

to think the Guardian is better than this?

51 replies

TheBogQueen · 14/09/2014 08:55

www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/13/orange-order-march-edinburgh-scottish-independence-vote

Here we have an orange walk which caused the centre of Edinburgh to close down .
Everyone was warned to stay away do that these bigoted knuckle-dragging idiots could have their rally.

Even Better Together will not accept their support.

Yet here we have a lovely 'fluffy' piece about this quaint tradition.

And the orange walk 'in pictures' !!!

What will we have next? A BNP away day,?

Are you fucking kidding me Guardian?

The editor should be ashamed. Truly ashamed.

OP posts:
Viviennemary · 14/09/2014 11:05

The Guardian writes what they think their readers want to hear. Sometimes they get it wrong.

IrnBruTheNoo · 14/09/2014 11:06

What are you wasting money on the Guardian for anyway OP??! You should be reading the Sunday Herald! Wink

BOFster · 14/09/2014 11:08

As for why people might find these kinds of marches disturbing, it is precisely because of the sort of unsavoury element who hover on their fringes, with little obvious active discouragement from the Orange Order. It makes for a very unpleasant and threatening afternoon for a lot of people, particularly anybody Catholic, non-white, gay etc etc. The main body of the march may be perfectly legal, but it does tend to act as a rallying point for smaller groups of nuts who aren't at all interested in the democratic process and are happy to dish out the odd kicking here and there.

It doesn't do much that's positive for the No campaign, and by reporting the event as a jolly day out, it could look like The Guardian is taking a disingenuous swipe at the No supporters by tarring them with the same brush. Anybody who has ever experienced the reality of an Orange march in Scotland would understand the context, and realise why it is ridiculous to compare their marches to events like Gay Pride etc.

OOAOML · 14/09/2014 11:19

I didn't compare the march to Pride, I was picking up on the point about streets being closed. This happens a lot in Edinburgh.

But I haven't seen any reports of 'an odd kicking'. The march genuinely seems to have been peaceful and I haven't heard of any violence happening because of it.

I don't like mass rallies. Personally, I'm not comfortable with crowds. I hate getting accidentally caught out on the street when football crowds are about. I once studiously avoided the centre of town when an SDL march was on, only to find coachloads of them parking along the streets near where I live. I don't like the slogans and the atmosphere, but as we live in a democracy with reasonable freedom of expression, that includes freedom of expression for those whose views are not ours, and relying on the police to deal with any incidents.

OOAOML · 14/09/2014 11:22

I wonder how many people actually still buy newspapers and have their decisions influenced by them? So much is being made of which papers are publishing their stances. Obviously the things you read will inform your view. But I rarely buy a newspaper - usually I will visit several different newspaper websites to read accounts of something I am interested in. Obviously this shields me from the views of The Times, and usually from the Herald/Sunday Herald (as they only allow a very small number of articles a month without subscribing). Do people genuinely pick up the Sunday Herald and say 'that's it, I'm voting Yes', or Scotland on Sunday and say 'that's it, I'm voting No'?

BOFster · 14/09/2014 11:23

Yes, I see what you mean now, sorry. I'm just pointing out that the atmosphere on Orange marches is very different, and that they do create a lot of tension. It's a relief there was no major trouble, because that often isn't the case.

PhaedraIsMyName · 14/09/2014 11:29

I buy The Guardian and The Telegraph. I'm not persuaded by either of them particularly but obviously at the moment The Telegraph is telling me what I want to hear.

OOAOML · 14/09/2014 11:29

I really don't like the Orange marches. I remember complaining vigorously to DH about them a few years ago (in the days they were on Princes St - I imagine that will have to stop because of our glorious on-street train set) when I was trying to get into town to get new shoes for the children. I was going off on a big rant about how disgraceful it was that they were allowed to disrupt everyone like this and how I didn't like what they stood for - and he gave me a look and challenged me as to how I could say I believed in freedom of expression and speech if that was how I felt, or did I only want freedom of speech for people who I agreed with?

OOAOML · 14/09/2014 11:31

I quite often read Telegraph articles online. Plus Scotsman and Guardian. It is interesting to see the spin they put on them. And depressing how foul-mouthed the commenters are everywhere.

WildThong · 14/09/2014 11:33

I often read the Herald online (but not on a Sunday) and occasionally the Hootsman. I agree though, the comments range from laughable to disgusting.
We buy a Times every day, mostly for the crossword. which I can't do

MrsJoeDolan · 14/09/2014 11:34

It did make me chuckle slightly to be honest.... I kept thinking THIS LOT?!! This is who are being wheeled out to convince the Scots to stay in the union?

THE ORANGE ORDER?!!!

If ever a group could make me run to the ballot box and vote yes it'd be them.

On a positive note I'm sure they marched beautifully what with having all that practice marching up and down roads.

BOFster · 14/09/2014 11:37

I suspect that was exactly the reaction The Guardian was after, MrsJD Grin

PhaedraIsMyName · 14/09/2014 11:40

MrsJoe I can't stand the Orange Order but you are just reinforcing your own views.

If anything is guaranteed to make me run to the ballot box and vote No it would be Wings over Scotland.

PhaedraIsMyName · 14/09/2014 11:40

And they weren't being "wheeled out"

WildThong · 14/09/2014 11:47

We cant pick and choose in a free country who is allowed to have a march and who isn't. That would be like living in Russia or something.

BruthasTortoise · 14/09/2014 11:51

The BBC coverage of the 12th of July in NI would make your hair curl, OP, if this article is enough to upset you Smile. The OO is problematic, in a way that Pride isn't, because their core ideology is superiority - they are not celebrating their only their culture but also celebrating the fact that they are better than non-Protestants. Plus the militaristic style makes me uncomfortable - it seems at times like a show of strength.

Coffeethrowtrampbitch · 14/09/2014 11:54

At least Wings Over Scotland are unlikely to be marching down your street once a fortnight all summer Phaedra

I don't object, they do have freedom of expression, but I think they should march less frequently as it causes a material loss to businesses who have to close their premises for fear of trouble, and more of a balance needs to be struck.

Although I enjoy watching them go by, as an atheist it is fairly funny for the outfits alone.

hackmum · 14/09/2014 12:00

OP, I'm inclined to agree with you. I've just read the article and it does paint the whole thing as a jolly day out with very little of the unsavoury historical context. The Guardian likes to publish a a range of views in their comment section, but this is essentially a news piece by two Guardian staffers, so it does read remarkably uncritically.

Original poster
TheBogQueen · 14/09/2014 12:17

I think the orange order is better left unreported and should be left alone allowed to dwindle to one man and his dog.

I suppose thus article is really meant to play to a UK audience which shows how little understanding the national media has of the sectarianism in Scotland.

And Yes it plays badly fur the No campaign too - if these are the people motivated to match in support of the union then it counters the accusations of ugly nationalism aimed at the Yes camp.

OP posts:
Original poster
TheBogQueen · 14/09/2014 12:18

And it's awful. When you are trying to raise children, that they are exposed to this sectarianism on the streets outside their homes.

OP posts:
WildThong · 14/09/2014 12:22

I think the orange order is better left unreported and should be left alone allowed to dwindle to one man and his dog

So don't start threads talking about them then Hmm

Original poster
TheBogQueen · 14/09/2014 12:23

Bit that's ridiculous - I'm commenting on what has appeared in a national paper already.

I think it's wrong.

OP posts:
IrnBruTheNoo · 14/09/2014 12:26

"So don't start threads talking about them then"

That was my point earlier in this thread!!!!!

I just don't get why people would give the OO any attention....don't give them what they crave.

WildThong · 14/09/2014 12:30

I understand, but what's that old saying about "the oxygen of publicity" or some such?

It's a pish article in a pish (IMO) paper. Tomorrow's landfill.

roughtyping · 14/09/2014 13:05

Thanks wild.

All the 'yes' pages I follow on FB etc seem to have said repeatedly to make sure rallies were elsewhere and to let the OO get on with it, which seems to have happened.