Should owners clean up after cats?

[Sillysausage2]

I'm a responsible dog owner and clean up after my dog. Unfortunately I think the scent of my dog attracts cats to my front garden, I watched 2 come and shit in my garden this afternoon! LO plays in the front garden and apparently cat shit is very dangerous, AIBU to be a bit pissed off with this?

I love mumsnet
Got a cat problem? Try a super soaker?
Try a 9mm sub machine gun
You really do get the best advice here

insancerre Coffee sprayed all over the keyboard, now!

I was about to say that this thread had escalated quickly.

A few points:

1. Providing a litter tray doesn't prevent a cat from going to the loo outside.
2. It's not always feasible to keep a cat indoors at all times. Mine is an indoor cat, but I've had him since he was a kitten. I've known rescue cats who it would be cruel to keep indoors when they are used to roaming free.
3. It's only cat shit. Get some perspective.
4. Cats do far less damage to the environment and wildlife than humans do. See the advice for putting down Jeyes fluid, which would likely kill all number of creatures, to deter a small mammal.
5. If you can smell cat shit for a while after it's been deposited, then it's probably not cat shit. It doesn't, as a rule, smell for a long time. Foxes on the other hand...

The cats fight back!

We have 4 cats, none of them will use a litter tray if they have outside as an option, not sure how you'd train them to do so. One of mine poos in our garden so I check and pick it up before the kids go out.
They come and go as they please and are never locked out. My neighbour has taught his children to shout at/kick/hit my cats which I personally find unacceptable. There are a LOT of cats in my street so he has no idea of it's mine or someone else's and no matter how annoyed you are about their poo they are living creatures and just the same as I won't let my children chase ducks/pigeons I think it's wrong to teach them to hurt cats.
Personally I think it's cruel to keep cats in and hard to do with children in the house, the kids let me littlest dog out all the time.
Curry powder works quite well although doesn't last long and isn't great for your toddler playing in either!
Genuinely surprised at how many people would be happy to kill someone's loved pet. Assumed my neighbour was in a very small minority as he's a total arse in other ways too.

Have you seen the damage a dog can cause sheep?

Have you seen the damage a cat can cause to a baby bird?

I would never hurt a cat but I don't like them at all. There are at least 16 of them on my street and they fight every night.

One keeps getting in my house and I worry my dogs will harm it. I have chucked washing up bowls of water over it and it still comes back.

There is loads of cat shit in my front garden but the dogs do a good job of keeping them out the back garden. It is never buried and one in particular will shit anywhere, even on walls. I guess they are all trying to mark their territory?

I would welcome laws restricting roaming cats but it will never happen.

Agree with leige owning a cat is a bit antisocial. (Nevermind lots of them)
In our area there are so many houses, lots of cats and some dogs. If you have neither then you get the cat crap.

On the lawn.
Not buried.

But also on our gravel driveway - use it like a litter tray. Now we have to block pave the driveway.
It is the access to the house ... Ergh can get on your shoes and toddler who picked a bit up on the way out.
I stood in it loading car so was almost on long car journey.
I must have picked up 50 in the last 6m.
The green bottle (garlic) stuff works temporarily.
But its all a cost i dont want.
It also digs up vegetables and craps on them.

It would be easier to get 1 to put others off if i was not allergic.

Have you seen the damage a cat can cause to a baby bird?

Yes, but unless you have your own birds that is irrelevant. If a cat got into a person's aviary or chicken run then perhaps they would be justified to shoot the cat as a response.

The damage caused by cats to wildlife, however, is not the same issue. I agree the damage cats cause to birds and small mammals is unpleasant, but really it pales into insignificance against the damage done by humans.

Large-scale agriculture, housing developments, motorways, fracking, crude oil, pesticides, plastic bags, hunting for sport, landfill, aerosols - these are all human things which cause more damage to wildlife, and which cause long-lasting damage to the environment, in comparison to a hunting cat.

"but unless you have your own birds that is irrelevant"

A friend of mine encourages wild birds to come in to their garden, so its not irrelevant.

In terms of the cat causing damage/harm to your family, property, livestock, pets or property it is irrelevant. I don't think a cat killing a wild bird would be grounds for harming it in the eyes of the law, whereas a dog killing your sheep would be.

Obviously I can see why to your friend that would be a reason for her to dislike cats. I can fully understand why somebody who isn't a cat owner might dislike cats. I cannot understand how anybody could dislike cats enough to shoot them (which was what Sunna was justifying) outside of exceptional circumstances and I do not think a cat hunting a wild bird, whilst some may find it upsetting, is likely to cause enough distress to a person to justify it as exceptional circumstance. Rightly or wrongly unlike pets or livestock wild animals can generally not expect to be protected by humans (unless they are endangered or rare) from the dangers of living alongside us.

I can't use my bird feeding table as it turns into a cat feeding table if I do.

muasmuas

Hugs, a close neighbour used to keep Koi carp, they kept them for years.
the pond is now filled in as the local cats (despite the fish keepers best efforts) have eaten or killed all the fish.

Keep a waterpistol/bucket of water near your front door. They'll soon learn...

I wasn't justifying killing them - I was wondering why it's ok to kill other animals that damage gardens and not cats.

There is less cause to shoot wild animals than to shoot uncontrolled pets imo.

Apologies, I slightly misunderstood. Although I don't think legally it is okay to kill any animals purely because they are damaging your garden.

It is legal to kill some wild animals but there are lots of wild animal species which are protected including many types of birds (eg: swans, barn owls, kingfishers, buzzards), bats, dormice, water voles and wild cats. Many other wild birds and mammals are only legal to kill with a license. I do not believe there is any legal clause which states if a protected species is damaging your garden it is legal to kill it, for example badgers are protected and if you have a badger's sett damaging your garden then you need a license to interfere with it. You are not allowed to kill the badger unless in exceptional circumstances.

Wild cats, including wild domestic cats, are protected like many other species. Whether this is right or wrong I don't know but they are not the only animal it is illegal to kill.

Domestic cats, as with all pets, are additionally protected by extension of being someone else's property and as such to kill one would be criminal damage.

Generally speaking cats really don't go in for the whole training thing.

This is entirely untrue. Cats can be trained, but most cat owners either can't or won't.

Dammit, "Generally speaking cats really don't go in for the whole training thing." is supposed to be a quote!

I clean up after my dog but not my cat, and it'd never occurred to me before MN that people considered that unreasonable.

I think it simply comes down to tolerance. It IS mildly unfair that people without cats have to deal with cat shit in their garden, in the same way people without dogs have to put up with dogs barking and poo residue and wee in public areas, and people without children have to put up with other people's screaming babies and noisy children.

People are kindly tolerating you constantly in your life, whoever you are, so it's a selfish perspective to only see the concessions being asked of you.

anecdotal

From personal experience cat owners are the only pet owners that believe that they have a right to dictate what you do with your own garden.

I used to be a keen gardener, I spent thousands (literally) on my garden, raised beds, pea gravel, trees, flowers, shrubs, frankly allsorts of different flora, it basically became the toilet area for (what seemed) to be every cat in the area, after trying many many different approached to keep the cats out I gave up and gravelled the entire area, half inch gravel and above.

Problem solved, no more cats using my garden as a toilet, Of course I didn't think that I would have so many cat owners complain that I had done something so bad as to stop their cats shitting on my property, some of the owners where down right abusive and several demanded that I put my garden back to the way it was.

Can you guess my response?

Cat shit carries diseases, lucy, crying children don't.

Toxoplasmosis - It is most dangerous to a pregnant woman, who can transfer this infection to her foetus through the placenta. This could cause a miscarriage, or may cause the baby to be stillborn or born with congenital toxoplasmosis. This could be fatal for a baby. If the child survives, it can suffer from blindness, jaundice, convulsions and severe mental retardation.

Boneyback that is extraordinary! What on earth goes through some people's minds?!

lucy

some people's sense of entitlement is amazing :)

Many children (and people in general of course) do carry diseases which can be transmitted to others - coughs, colds, chickenpox, flu, slapped cheek etc. They are often out in public whilst contagious, either because their parents don't know or don't care that they are unwell, and could pose a threat to pregnant women or other immuno-suppressed people. A colleague lost her baby when 5 months pregnant after a child with slapped cheek was sent into the school where we work.

And cat owners clearly don't care because they allow their cats to shit wherever they like.

I don't know why I get drawn into cat poo threads, I should really have learnt my lesson after all the other cat poo threads. Anyway the chances of getting toxoplasmosis during pregnancy is low according to the nhs. If it were considered a real risk we would all be screened routinely.