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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think a teacher with children on a school trip should actually supervise them?

28 replies

Matildathecat · 12/09/2014 21:07

So, on a visit today to the revamped Imperial War Museum. So much fantastic stuff for children to see, experience and learn from.

My friend and I were in the war paintings exhibition which is a quieter part of the museum. One small, really atmospheric room houses a large painting of a young, dead soldier who has been gassed ( and therefore suffered a horrible, painful death). We are taking this in when a small bunch of boys aged around 10 come racing in and immediately start posing around this painting and taking photos of one another. The accompanying teacher watches on fondly.

My friend and I are genuinely upset by this and remark quite mildly that this is disrespectful and a bit inappropriate. To which the teacher says, 'It's alright, they aren't touching it.'

Surely the teacher should be considering more than this? We were really pretty disturbed by this. AIBU to think you either teach the children to respect the meaning of the paintings and maybe consider the feelings of others or keep them to the displays especially aimed at children?

OP posts:
AgentZigzag · 12/09/2014 21:13

YABU, possibly, but it's a fine line between teaching them you can learn interesting things if you look into wars and shit, and boring them to the point that they never look into it again.

They were 10, and so long as they weren't damaging anything, it's a bit of a big ask to expect them to walk somberly round, heads bowed, while considering the pain and suffering war can inflict.

I'm not saying it's OK to leave them unchecked if they were being a bit too boisterous, but they're children so they're going to act like children.

Original poster
Matildathecat · 12/09/2014 21:17

Fair point but as I say, there are a lot of age appropriate displays, far more on display than could be viewed in a day. This was pretty adult viewing IMO.

OP posts:
hiccupgirl · 12/09/2014 21:18

Tbh it doesn't sound like either they or the teacher did anything wrong here - they weren't being boisterous or disruptive, they just didn't treat the painting with the same level of respect as you did.

I get it's annoying and it disturbed your experience but at 10 kids are not going to stand reverently and quietly on an exciting school trip. For all you know the teacher may have got them to take photos for a class discussion about the meaning of the painting back in class next week.

Flipflops7 · 12/09/2014 21:19

YANBU, OP.

MrRabbitsUtopia · 12/09/2014 21:21

Do you know it was a teacher? It could have been a parent helper and therefore not have the same expectations of behaviour as you might expect a teacher to have.

Anotherchapter · 12/09/2014 21:24

This would have annoyed me too.

Tbh unless it's a designated play area in the museum I don't think kids should be charging about in them. Ten years old is old enough to know how to act accordingly in the relevant social situations.

Anotherchapter · 12/09/2014 21:25

The best museum I ever went to was in Cairo. They certainly wouldn't have been charging about in there. Grin

DoctorLawn · 12/09/2014 21:31

Agree with MrRabbits - may well have been a parent, especially with the 'looked on fondly' aspect.

sanfairyanne · 12/09/2014 21:39

its only a painting though, not all that disrespectful surely, unless to other visitors

Original poster
Matildathecat · 12/09/2014 21:44

Well I'm not a teacher either, though did plenty of these trips when ds were that age, so does that mean the dc can run riot so long as they aren't actually causing damage? As a parent helper I would have been explaining the painting, not condoning silly photos and really quite offensive behaviour. Btw I am not blaming the children here, they shouldn't have been taken to these galleries unless prepared and briefed. The pictures are quite graphic and harrowing.

OP posts:
AgentZigzag · 12/09/2014 22:18

I'm quite 'in' to the first and second WWs and can understand how being immersed in it as you're going round the museum might have made you feel more sensitive to the respect you know the people who suffered through it deserve.

But the key to the message in this instance (IMO) is that children aren't forced into treating the subject as one where they have to change their normal behaviour when they're looking into it.

I don't mean ignoring any crap behaviour, because that's not on at any time/place, but rather that they don't associate it with somber reflection alone, that there's so much more to learn than just to feel pity for those who it caused pain to.

It's imperative they learn it so they can recognise it happening again when they're adults.

vestandknickers · 12/09/2014 22:24

YANBU. What is the point of taking children to the War Museum if the children aren't taught about respect and the importance of what they are seeing.

Thebodyloveschocolateandwine · 12/09/2014 22:32

I totally agree with you op.

10 is old enough to expect respectful behaviour.

The adult was at fault and should have been explaining this

AgentZigzag · 12/09/2014 22:37

Because there's the possibility it'll put them off the subject for life vesta?

I'm not saying they shouldn't be picked up for arsing about in the museum, but just how much solemnity is enough?

No talking or laughing at any point in the day?

It's unreasonable to expect a DC to be like that on a day out.

Isn't it good they were taking pictures of themselves with the painting, probably to plaster over instagram and facebook? That would be a great outcome IMO.

EvilTwins · 12/09/2014 22:37

Running riot? Hmm No easier way to turn a child off education than making them feel that their responses are invalid. I have taught for years and an still immensely grateful to the education coordinator at the Almeida a Theatre in Islington who told a group of intimidated kids that their response to the play they were about to watch was valid, no matter what that response was.

It's frustrating trying to give children the opportunity to experience new things when those places are full of sniffy adults insisting that there is only one appropriate way to respond.

EvilTwins · 12/09/2014 22:38

Almeida Theatre. No idea where the extra "a" came from.

Nanny0gg · 13/09/2014 00:48

It's frustrating trying to give children the opportunity to experience new things when those places are full of sniffy adults insisting that there is only one appropriate way to respond

It's also frustrating being the sniffy adult whose experience is ruined by badly behaved children.

In my view they were badly behaved. They shouldn't have been racing anywhere in a museum and as there were other people present they should have behaved better when in the room.

Even in the long-ago days when I was a parent helper, my group wouldn't have behaved like that.

SpaceInvaders · 13/09/2014 00:54

What AgentZigzag's said.

GoblinLittleOwl · 13/09/2014 08:19

Agree with original poster; boys should not be racing around museum, and this constant taking of photos is infuriating; it is the responsibility of the teaching staff to prevent this.
However, if you see a well-organised trip, and there are many, make a point of complimenting the teachers; it makes their day.

Veritata · 13/09/2014 08:46

The adult was at fault and should have been explaining this

It's not the role of a parent helper to explain anything.

BlackeyedSusan · 13/09/2014 08:50

they are ten, they should not be rushing about a lot...

the best comment I had when chivvying the end of a line of 60 children across the road was...

"some people will do anything for the child benefit!"

Nanny0gg · 13/09/2014 09:10

It's not the role of a parent helper to explain anything.

Bit pointless them being on the trip then.

northlight · 13/09/2014 09:16

I'm a primary teacher and our pupils are expected to behave particularly quietly and well when they are sharing spaces with the general public. Its all in the cause of teaching them that certain behaviours are required in certain places. Museums are not for running in. Children are allowed to forget because they are children and excited but they should quickly respond to a reminder.

In common with my colleagues I have often received compliments about the behaviour of my pupils - at a falconry display, in the chapel of remembrance at Edinburgh Castle, the streets of York and York Minster. Our old head teacher once asked a boy to get down off a wall only to get the amazed comment from a bystander, "You asked him to get down and he did." At the imax cinema in Manchester the usher was amazed that we ensured our group left row by row instead of just jostling their way out.

Renniehorta · 13/09/2014 11:44

Once, when I was in charge of a particularly difficult group of English pupils on a visit to Spain, I saw the solution. I watched enviously as a crocodile of Spanish primary pupils walked past. There was a teacher at the front and another at the back of a rope. The pupils were each tied by the wrist to a string which was then attached to the rope. They walked up the road in an orderly crocodile singing as they went.

That is how to achieve good behaviour on a school trip.

spanieleyes · 13/09/2014 12:18

The way to achieve good behaviour on a trip is not to tether children to a rope but to set high expectations and ensure they are met!
Our children always receive favourable comments from others for their behaviour on school trips ( indeed, when in the National Portrait Gallery the children themselves commented about the poor behaviour of another school group and said "We don't behave like that, it's not polite")!! The children know what is expected of them and behave accordingly. Of course children can be lively and excitable on school trips but disrespect and disturbing others is not acceptable.

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