To not understand why the Scots would rather be controlled by the EU than be part of the uk?

[Twooter]

Just that really. And apologies for another Indy thread, but for all No voters it is getting hard to think of anything else.

dont lump us all together. Not all of us want to break away from the UK

Too true ilove. I'm a No voter, and am trying to work why anyone would choose not to be. Hence asking why being a small fish in the EU is preferable to being a larger fish in the uk ( as well as a medium fish in the EU). That's assuming we get allowed to join/stay in the EU anyway.

Because the EU is still perceived by many - particularly of a left-wing disposition - to be a progressive wet dream and being anti-EU is mistakenly cast as being anti-European.

It is infuriating because, as you say, if Scotland votes Yes many of those Yes voters will want to exchange the "oppression" of England for real, actual, oppression by the EU in which all sovereignty is once again removed from them.

This is my question to people voting yes. I don't want to break away from the UK. That's assuming Scotland would even get into the EU.

The EU provides a large open trading market, free movement of people, protection against war in europe etc etc. Plenty of reasons to want to be in it.

The UK is part of the EU at the moment so wanting to continue with being in Europe wouldn't add anything at all to the "oppression" versus the current position.

Replacing the Westminister layer of government with an independent government would mean Scotland would get to decide more of its own affairs than it currently does. It's quite simple.

England's politics is more at odds with Scotland than the average in the EU.

Twooter your comparison is invalid.

The current position is being a small fish in the UK with no fish at all in the EU (but with a medium fish who's views you disagree with claiming to represent you whilst trying to climb out of the pond).

Independence within the EU would be having your own pond as well as being a small fish in the EU.

....whose

Handsoff, that is where we differ. I see the Uk as security, not oppression.

Perhaps because the EU is largely left-wing, and the rest of the UK isn't?

Voting no is no guarantee of being a medium fish though - the government have agreed to a referendum on Europe. I know several yes voters who have been pushed to that position because they feel that it is better for Scotland to be part of Europe (key export region for our booming Food and Drink markets) than chancing being in a UK which votes to leave The EU.

So would your friends have voted No if it there was no likelihood of an EU referendum? Because that's a big gamble that a) rUK will vote out of the EU and b) Scotland will be allowed to stay/join with favourable conditions.

"Oppression" was Hell2theno's phrase.

Being part of the EU is a pretty effective form of protection though - look at how many european wars there were pre EU and compare it to how many there have been since. I tend to think people in the UK miss the fact that stopping inter-european conflict is one of the biggest benefits of the EU.

I am pro-EU. I think leaving the EU is a terrible idea. European countries are not big enough to play on a world stage compared to the likes of the USA, China, Russia etc.

I am an undecided Scot. I don't know what's more risky, voting Yes and not getting into the EU as an independent country or voting No and risking Cameron and his UKIP-type pressure-groups taking us out of EU or demanding so many special provisions that the EU decides to kick the UK out.

EU legislation safeguards us with rules about H&S, safety of baby toys, car seats etc. It protects our environment. It protects our work rights. It protects us from discrimination. The amount that 'business' bitches about the EU makes me seriously doubt any of those things would be protected adequately in a non-EU UK.

I guess the point of the Yes voting pro-EU people would be that as an indie country in the EU Scotland would have a voice at the table rather than relying on the UK prime-minister who is disproportionately concerned with the issues of London and the SE of England. One example is European migration - Scotland could welcome young working-age migrants to help with our overall aging population demographic, but London and the SE is very against migration due to overcrowding.

Will the EU allow an independent Scotland to join? That question isn't entirely settled. Accepting an independent Scotland would set a precedent if Belgium or Spain broke up.

Nobody knows erica and nobody can know. Ignore anybody who says they will or they will not. Nobody will know unless the yes vote wins and until after the negotiations.
Whatever happens an indie scotland would not get the concessions that the uk have. However, i personally believe that a lot of the uk concessions are fundamentally unfair.

Twooter it's all a gamble either way.

There are no certainties on either side of the debate. Which ever way the votes goes, nothing is going to be the same again. Voting either way requires a leap of faith.

If we vote 'no' we don't just go back to the way things were before, the game has changed forever. We will have diminished ourselves as a nation (rather than a region) and I have no faith at all in the last minute devolution powers discussions.