To think that tax credits and the like actually seem quite generous?

[MaliceInWonderland78]

My wife has recently given birth to DC3. She is currently on maternity leave. She works 30 hours a week for 19k per annum. Having checked things out on "entitled to.co.uk" it seems, were I to croak it, or do a runner, she'd be entitled to universal credit of approximately 200 per week. I'm not sure if this is correct though (it seems quite high).

If that is the case, how on earth are people needing food banks? I don't mean it to be patronising, I was just shocked that the figure was this high. As a tax payer, I'm hoping this is wrong. My calulations are as follows:

Wages - 300
Universal Credit - 200
Child benefit - 44

In addition to this, the council tax bill would be reduced from 160 pcm to approximately 45.

Is this peoples' real-world experience?

I'd said up thread that I no longer walk down the stairs in front of her!

The entitled to website gave us different figures to the job centre when dh was unemployed.

I'm not convinced it's correct.

pretty sure your calculations are off there is no way you would get that help and you never get help with council tax even we don't and we earn less than you

I think either you or entitledto are wrong somewhere. Those calculators are notorious for giving out the wrong results.

I can't see how your council tax bill would reduce by that much.

Re. food banks, the ones around here only allow people to use them twice.

Having said that, I think my tax credits are incredibly generous. I was concerned I had been overpaid but was asked to provide receipts, documents etc and the award was confirmed. I wouldn't rely on the calculator; it was way out for me but based on my experiences I think you have a point.

They are very generous if you have a low income and a few kids.

Why on earth do you think your council tax would drop that much? Assuming 2 adults in your home then if one leaves then the other still has to pay 75% so £120.

She might, but only might, get some help to pay for her council tax, but that is included in the £200.

The child benefit is also included in the £200 universal credit.

So total UC for a year £10400 - CT = 1440 (using CT as 12 x monthly, I realise it might be 9) - CB (44 x 52) £2288

So assuming you ave put in the right figures she would gain £6672 a year, £128 a week. I assume you bring more than that in to the house?

Also have you taken account of student loan repayments or payments in to a pension?

And if you did do a runner, do you think she could get child care for 3 children for under £150 a week?

Wtf

They take your salary into consideration so youkl probably find it turns into a 0 ! i get 19 a year but once my rent is paid and direct debits etc im overdrawn by 41 pounds so i see none of my salary not a penny. Then i get 32 a week tax credit which i have to pay for food and any clothes school trips etc which doesn't go anywhere.

Horse why is it ridiculous that supply teachers claim benefits in the holidays? Often they only get work two or three days a week term time not enough to save money for the holidays . Would you rather they starved for six weeks?

It's okay soontobesix they could get one of the numerous jobs horse mentioned - you know, the cleaning / caring / fast food jobs.. there's just SO many of them about after all and who cares if they're zero hour contracts or cost you more to get there than you'd earn in a day... eh?

Op if your joint income is more than around £38k and you have no childcare costs you will get zero in tax credits. You don't mention your wages?

My income is such that we don't qualify for child benefit. We definitely don't get any tax credits. We were just curious as to what we might get.

Friends of ours recently separated. They are in the process of reconciling. They're in a similar income bracket to us (though with only two kids). They haven't said what they get in terms of tax credits (the wife wasn't going to claim them at first as there was no need) but needless to say, she has a new car (an 12 plate actually, but by no means an old banger) they maintain separate homes (she remained in the family home - a large 4-bed detached) and eat out more than they ever have done and took a holiday this year - as well as numerous weekends away (more than 3) whilst they were trying to 'save their marraige'

What I've been trying to get to is that for some, the regime seems pretty favourable. Like us they have no childcare costs (their support network is actually a bit better than ours).

It looks though as if the calculator is wrong. Though I believe child benefit to be outside of the universal credit. I may have another go.

Malice, for all you know your friends may well have been living it up on a credit card. We live in a very low income area (average salary here either minimum wage or just above) and I don't know anyone who has a new car. I suspect a lot of those that do have new cars purchase them on very long finance agreements.

Isn't there a saying you should never look into your neighbours bowl except to check that they have enough?

I think there spending might have been on credit cards or savings rather than benefits. Its a myth that those claiming only the benefits that they are entitled to, all can afford to eat out and have latest iphone, trainers, designer handbag etc.

I certainly couldn't have and that was with maintenance from my ex that was a fairly significant some of money. It does depend on your housing costs as my friend who was in a 3 bed housing association house her rent was less than half of my private rent and so her cash went further than mine, even though we earned roughly the same amount, she didn't have help from an ex or any money from him.

In many respects we should be grateful that we have a fairly generous benefits system for those in genuine need. I do agree that contrary o popular mumsnet opinion, that there is a section of society who do not want to work and can easily get by on the lowest benefits s they are used to, they haven't incurred credit card debt etc as they've never used them/not been able to get one as unemployed. Whereas someone who is made redundant may already have credit cards or loans or car repayments as they worked and could afford them, not thinking that they might lose their job and end up struggling to find a new job that pays the same.

With regards to there being plenty of jobs out there, well that does depend on the area you live in. I live in the south east and there does appear to be a lot of jobs available, so hopefully should I lose my job for any reason then I could hopefully find on quickly. Whereas in some part of the north or down into devon/cornwall and more remote areas, its harder to find a job as there isn't as much about.

Fairylea Perhaps. They're certainly more inclined to use credit than we are; however, the husband bought it all under control (from his side) when they seperated.

I did the calculator again this morning, and the figure it came up with today was 218.21 - which included child benefit of 47.60

That's certainly less generous than it was yesterday, but added to her net pay of 316 per week and the 182.00 per week I'd have to give her, she'd still net 716.21 per week.

I've always said that benefits should be much more generous, but include a contributory element. As is pointed out above, someone may have paid in for years and have very high living costs. This should be reflected (for a time) when they come to claim.

People have told you entitled to is not correct, but contrary to what you state, you definitely have an agenda and keep banging the same drum.

I was shocked by the amount I got from tax credits when I got back into work last year as a single parent of 4 and was only working part time, got help with childcare etc. Those online calculators are a waste of time though like others have said they are not accurate. I recently moved in with my partner and when we were sorting finances out had a go of it and told us we were entitled to help with council tax and rent but we wasnt entitled to any council tax benefit and the housing benefit was only 18 a week where as the calculator told us it would be practically half my weekly rent.

I suppose the agenda I have is:

Are some people that don't need benefits getting them?

Does the benefits system encourage people to live separately (or claim to)?

I think they're farily valid questions. I've been informed by some of the posts on here and I accept that the calculator isn't accurate - which was the initial query. It doesn't negate EVERYTHING else that followed.

Having out your figures into entitled (3 children, single parent earning £19k, no childcare costs, owner occupier) it came out with a figure of £160pw tax credits and £47 pw child benefit, no help with council tax other then the 25% single person discount. It says the figure of £160pw would be reduced to £152 under universal credit.

So that is less than what's the calculator to you, but no doubt, you still think it is excessively generous. You have mentioned that you have a small mortgage and don't need childcare but look at that income for somebody with a £600pm mortgage and a childcare bill to pay and it suddenly doesn't look like a huge sum of money at all.
Mortgage £600
Council tax £100
Childcare £300 (after childcare tax credit help)
Utilities £200
Food £300
Travel expenses £150
House and life insurances £40
School meals, clothing, extra curricular activities, house repairs.....

Just put my own income into entitled calculator and it totally overestimated.

That's my point. The benefits system seems to take no account of indiviual circumstances. For example, it just asked if the house was rented, or owned/mortgaged. It walso gave the impression that extra help would be available for childcare should she need it.

I don't know what the answer is (and I'd always been against means testing previously) but I'm coming to the conclusion that if there's less cake to go round, it should be givne to those who are most in need.

I thought you were of the mindset that benefits were far too generous across the board. Whatever you think though there isn't much point to increased means testing as it would be expensive to administer and may cost more to administer than any potential savings in reduced benefits payments.
I do kind of agree that people who have been in work for many years should get an enhanced level of financial support for a limited period if something out of the individuals control happens which leaves them out of work. But I do think your thread comes across as very goady and ignorant of the hoops that people have to jump through to get benefits (and repay overpayments when the system fucks up). You and your wife are lucky in that you have a small mortgage and family who help with childcare but most people don't have that and genuinely need the benefits they get. Increasing means testing to sort out the tiny minority in circumstances like your wife would cost the system more money overall.

malice

i simply don't understand. is this thread about benefits bashing or not? It feels as if it is and as if it is choosing a particularly rosy picture and then trying to apply it to everyone else - most, who have a much less rosy picture

Your figures in the beginning were wrong
They also include the money that you would pay to your wife for your children if you left.
Many men don't contribute to their children or do so at a very low rate and whenever it suits them or when they can. Perhaps have a look at how much an unemployed man contributes toward his 3 children.
Most women then also have to pay for at least 30% of their child care from their wages

Without your sizeable contribution and with childcare added on top there wouldn't be a great deal left to live on from pay, child benefit and tax credit top ups

Therefore you are being very unreasonable and I wonder what your motivation is for this post.

So what are you actually saying? If you died tomorrow and left your wife with nothing the benefits she would be able to claim are too much?

Thats a bit fucked up isnt it?

So lp working and claiming are getting too much?

Personally im glad those bringing up dc on their own on a low wage have enough financial support (if they actually do! )