to want exp to pay the maintenance he owes before next seeing dc

[Baabaapinksheep]

To get a bit of background exp lives a couple of hours away from dc, 6 and 4, and me, entirely his choice, and sees dc about once a month for an afternoon, again his choice.

Everytime he comes to see them I end up having to go without maintenance because he says he can't afford to pay that and the cost of travel to get here. They went to stay with him last month, and one of the condtions was that all maintenance be paid because he owed me for a few weeks in July. He agreed to this and said it would not be a problem, however when the time came he didn't pay anything, his excuse being that it cost more in travel than he thougth it would, even though this is a cost that he can work out beforehand.

I have had nothing since then. He is due to come and see dc in a couple of weeks, would IBU to tell him that he needs to pay everything he owes or the visit will be postponed? I can't afford to keep going without maitnenance every time he sees them, and I really think he needs to be able to budget for both maintenance and seeing thd dc. No doubt I will lose another week of maintenance if he does come and see them in a couple of weeks.

I'm not sure how I feel about it, so happy to be told IABU.

As an aside, dc aren't asking to see him and don't know he is due to come in a couple of weeks.

I would tell him that you will sue him for maintenance again if he hasn't paid what is owed in FULL by the next visit or by Friday frankly and avoid linking the two things. [if he is self employed it won't help his personal credit rating]

If a woman posted on the relationship board to say that her husband had taken away her bank cards and was refusing to pay for her to eat or to be clothed any more, would you tell her she wasn't pay per view and that she was BU to link her relationship with money? Or would you tell her she was being financially abused and that she should LTB.

I suspect the latter for most people. Why do we think children who are far more vulnerable should have to put up with being treated like the kind of shit that we ourselves would never tolerate?

Yes infinity. The pay per view line is a nice soundbite but ignores the reality of the financial struggle involved when absent fathers don't pony up, and it implies that being the better parent is all about taking the moral high ground. The moral high ground doesn't buy uniforms or put food on the table.

I agree that a parent shouldn't get to cherry pick but the contact isn't for the father, it's not the father that has rights to see the child, it's the child that has a right to see their father so by withholding contact you're denying the child their rights.

The reason people trot out the pay per view line is that contact is not for the nrp.

It is for the children. It is them that have the right to see their father/ mother.

I'm 100% with you OP.

If someone can't be fucked paying for their DC then they don't deserve to see them.

Unfortunately I don't think UK law is ok board with that point of view.

YANBU, OP. Effectively, your ex is wanting you to pay for him to see his kids. The money to feed/clothe/care for them has to come from somewhere - those expenses don't just disappear because he decides he doesn't want to pay them. He's taking out of your pocket every time he decides to pay less because he's visiting - I'd stop facilitating his visits for now and get straight on to the CSA in an effort to establish both regular payments and regular contact.

YANBU to want that. However, don't withhold contact. Take other measures as many have suggested.

Wow quite a mixed response, I was sort of hoping for a unanimous yabu/yanbu.

I'm not coming at this from the point if view of he's not paying maintenance therefore I won't let him see the dc, it's more that it is costing me when he sees them because I have to go without maintenance. Although he certainly won't see it this way.

It's all very well saying I need to find another way to make him pay, but the only other way is to sue him every time. I've been onto the csa so many times and they do bugger all apart from say he has to pay £5 per week.

contact is for the benefit of the children, it is important for them, regardless of whether he is a dick.

IMO yanbu.
You both chose (I presume) to bring them in to the work so you both have a responsibility to them.
Too many people want to take the moral high ground and say the children will suffer but as it is he lives two hours away and sees them once a week. Why is it always the parent with PR who has to take the moral high ground?
He can't be that bothered if the kids are doing without it the mother of his kids is struggling and he can't cut back on drinking and smoking!

Sorry once a month

Can see why you want to withhold contact but it's not a good idea or best for the kids in the longterm. You need to (in your own mind) stop relying on getting his maintenance and regard it as a bonus when you get it, cos he's an unreliable arse, which presumably is why you are not still a couple? Especially as you can't enforce it as he's self employed.

Lay it on the line though, explain to him that if he doesn't give you the maintenance then you can't give the kids the things you both want for them so you expect him to cut down his other expenses to pay his travel costs not take it out of the children's money.

Can you get him to set up a standing order to pay your maintenance, so it just goes out of his account every month/week before he can touch it? You will have to have a serious talk with him, and can get a standing order form so he can sign it asap.

Otherwise, you could go to a lawyer - some still do free initial consultations - and ask them what you can do to ensure the money is paid regularly.

I do understand how difficult it is, and that you are not turning contact into Pay Per View, but you can't really withhold contact; they do have the right to see their dad.

yes you are unreasonable

Sorry dont mean to sound harsh but if hes in regular contact with the child I wouldnt stop any contact its not fair on your dc at all. I know speaking from a personal view I would of rather seen my dad than money (unfortunately I got neither)

He should be paying his way though and even if he is struggling he needs to start helping out financially however little. Is he aware your struggling? Maybe next time he visits put dc in clothes 2 sizes too small and holes etc, maybe a bit of an obvious thing to do but he may get the hint

Thanks for the responses, I won't stop him from seeing them.

I've done another claim through the small claims court for the money he owes, and will do that whenever he doesn't pay. Hopefully at some point he will get fed up and just pay maintenance!

love the idea of putting them in clothes 2 sizes too small! And when he arrives pack them all off with a mission to kit them out properly. He'll ask for money to be repaid, and you can sit down with him and the receipts and bank statements, and say "so I owe you X for half of these clothes, and you owe me X and Y and Z in maintenace, school uniform etc".

Would he really object to a standing order? Surely he'd rather it just got paid and he didn't have to think about it ever again?

Yabu. Go through the proper authorities (good luck there) but don't punish your kids but refusing access.

I have asked him to set up a standing order before, initially be said yes but then didn't do it. His reason was that he was worried he wouldn't then have enough money left for himself and wouldn't be able to stop the payment!