To want to give up on private renting completely..

[Bornfizzle]

Hi all

I've just recently given birth and due to unforeseen circumstances I'm going to have to look for a home to rent privately but this is proving to be an impossible task as most landlords are listing in their ads "no dss" or "no housing benefit", some for homes that are 300 a month and under so I am no way looking too far out of my price range. The LHA in Belfast NI is roughly 363 for a two bed.

I know some landlord's mortgages don't permit tenants who are getting housing benefit but after surfing the subject for a while on MN and other sites there seem to be those landlords who tar anyone who is getting benefits as scroungers who will ruin their property and spend their rent money on drugs, alcohol ....you name it! I understand being spurned by previous tenants but surely blanketing us all is slightly unfair!

I am in no way any of those things and only want a place to call home for my DC.

Sorry for the rant ...after DP abandoning us at the last minute and a difficult pregnancy everything just seems hopeless. Waiting list for council housing for non priority is roughly 3 years, even waiting for a hostel would take a good while....I just feel like crying and screaming all a at once!

Can someone explain to me what happens if a tenant begins a tenancy in work, and then circumstances change where they end up claiming housing benefit? Do mortgage and insurance companies stipulate they then get evicted?

I don't know. The lease doesn't say that so I don't think they would be. But you probably can't offer them a renewal after their existing tenancy ends.

I rented privately for around 9 years, in a lot of different houses. I was a lone parent and had a dog, so it really wasn't easy finding places. My advice would be:

1. try to find private landlords, rather than go through agencies. They don't make you pay fees, and you do find human ones who will take you on your merits. The classified ads in papers and cards in shop windows are the best places to find these.

2. if you do find a private landlord, you don't actually have to tell them you are getting HB. You can tick a box on your HB application to say you want the money paid direct to you, and you don't want your details shared with the landlord. You could easily say you will pay the rent with your maternity pay and maintenance from your ex. They rarely want to actually check your finances.

3. if you can't find a private landlord, it is possible to rent through an agency. I did it twice, and they knew I was on HB, but I did need a guarantor. Agents vary massively in their attitudes to HB, so it's worth trying different ones.

4. if not directly asked, don't give away too much of your personal situation on the phone. Once you have a viewing, it is like having your foot in the door. You can then turn on the charm and prove that you're not the stereotypical benefits claimant that they dread. If they like you as a person, they are likely to overlook little things like benefits.

Good luck!

But then the thing is that the housing benefit application doesn't require you to notify your landlord so they could extend the tenancy unknowingly.

Which is why the entire concept of "No DSS mortgages/insurance" is ludicrous, really, and I don't understand why it's allowed.

Well...If 60% of tenants have to claim some HB, then an awful lot of LL are renting to HB claimants, whether they know it or not.
And as for facts; There is no such thing anymore of a tenancy being legally longer than 1 year. In fact, most tenancies are legally 6 months, even if the contract says one year. Tenants lurch from one very short term tenancy to the next, with no security at all.

you don't actually have to tell them you are getting HB. You can tick a box on your HB application to say you want the money paid direct to you, and you don't want your details shared with the landlord.

Not sure how it works in the reta of the UK but in NI there is a section of the form that must be given to your LL or agent and filled in and signed. So if you want HB your LL would definitely know.

Many letting agencies will ask individual landlords for you if they would accept housing benefit. Its not impossible. Dont let them make you feel like shit. As long as the rent is paid, and you are a good tenant, it really isnt their concern, although in most cases they will want a guarantor.

If you really struggle, it might be worth speaking to housing advice at your council office

if your dp has abandoned you and you face homelessness with your children, then you need to be housed somehow.

What is your situation with housing currently?

The agency that we use verifies where all of the income is coming from. So if you included hb as part of your income, you would have to state where it was coming from for the credit check.

If a person was in receipt of hb after the initial credit check, i wouldn't know about it. However if i did find out i would have to ask them to leave no matter how good a tenant they were.

That's rubbish that you have to get a form filled in by the landlord, you definitely don't have to here in Somerset, can't speak for the rest of the uk.

I was told by one agency that the reason LLs don't want DSS tenants is that their insurance premium goes up if they do. Not sure how true that is.

Thanks beastofburden and soapboxqueen.

soapbox - that is very interesting, I can understand a ll being backed into a corner around this, but it does seem incredibly unfair on a reliable tenant who is paying their way (albeit with housing benefit) particularly if they are paying rent on a property that is within the LHA and not subject to "bedroom tax". I thought that was what HB was for!

If 60% of tenants have to claim some HB, then an awful lot of LL are renting to HB claimants, whether they know it or not.

YY. It seems a massive grey area really, and probably unnecessarily stressful for both ll and tenant.

Good luck OP. I know nothing about Ireland, but hopefully Loletta is right, and the council has a duty to rehouse you.

Landlords stipulating no DSS because of their mortgage or insurance would be unnecessary if if it didn't cost so much in time and money to get back money owed by tenants who default or damage the property.

If the police and courts made it easier for victims of defaulting tenants, and if people who claim HB weren't statistically more likely to default, then the risk wouldn't be so large, and insurance wouldn't need to charge more to cover the risk.

Hi Loletta, worst pat with over here in NI is that the primary homeless solution is a hostel, I've never actually heard of our council housing anyone in a b&b and there's been no policies here in NI about helping someone with a deposit, well, none that I've heard of anyway but if anyone has had any luck with this from NI I'd be more than grateful!

Thanks, Little, good to know another person has made through this situation! Unfortunately over here we're given a form to give to our LL's to fill out in order to get HB. The results of me emailing the Housing Executive and telling them about the trouble I am having finding a LL who accepts housing benefit.

"Good Afternoon

Thank you for your email below.

In order to claim Housing Benefit the claimant / tenant must complete a valid Housing Benefit application. If you are renting from a private landlord, they must complete a Housing Benefit Certificate of Occupation as part of the application process. As a result, this makes it obvious to the landlord that you will be making a Housing Benefit claim.

A housing benefit claimant decides who receives the award, for example, if it is paid direct to them, their landlord, agent etc. Therefore if you enter into a private arrangement to pay your landlord directly you could opt to have the housing benefit to you.

I hope this information is of some help.

Regards

Ken Breslin
HB POLICY"

Thanks, Bran, I'm feeling a bit more confident after hearing that a lot of others have been in this situation and came out on the other side. Currently we're staying with my grandparents until we can find a place, the Housing Executive had said it would take almost two months or more for a place in a hostel.

Woowooowl - cheers and applause.

don't think the resident landlord-haters will be pleased, though..

You want the police to be involved in what has always been a civil matter? Fucking hell, that is the very definition of entitlement. Would you also ask for the police to be involved in an owner occupier not paying their mortgage? You've got the entire armoury of the civil court system at your beck and call already for a non-paying tenant, and now you want the criminal justice system as well? Ffs. Get a fucking grip.

Whistling i agree. Though I've never been faced with that senario, i would be in breach of contract with my mortgage provider and would invalidate my insurance.

I honestly don't know where i would stand if there was a problem, a tenant was in receipt of hb and i didn't know about it.

It's theft to take a service without paying for it, and it's a crime to damage other people's property, so why shouldn't the victims of people who do those things be protected by criminal law?

If someone stole from a shop the police can be called and support will be given. I don't really think there's a huge difference.

This 'entire armoury of the civil court system' of which you speak costs money to use, and doesn't deliver anything when tenants do their best not to pay, so is pretty useless really.

Why wouldn't you want people who steal from others to be dealt with by the organisation that is supposed to uphold the law?

Like I said, if it did work like that, then people like the OP probably wouldn't find it quite so hard to find a ll willing to take a chance on her.

That's rubbish that you have to get a form filled in by the landlord, you definitely don't have to here in Somerset, can't speak for the rest of the uk.

no, you obviously cant speak for the rest of the UK, can you?

This isn't about a potential customer in a shop though - this is about a matter of property law, and the tenant has legal standing just the same as the landlord does - they have an interest in the land, and that is recognised by law. It isn't 'theft' because it's their home. If you really can't see the difference between someone living in a house and someone buying a packet of sweeties, then I hope to Christ that you're not a landlord.

It isn't 'theft' because it's their home.

And they have a right for it to be their home as long as they're paying for it. If they don't pay for it, they shouldn't have the effective right to just take the service and expect the person they are stealing from to have to pay to get what they are owed.

You'll be pleased to know that I am a landlord. A landlord who is an individual person, not a mortgage company, or even a mortgage holder, and I don't see any reason why individuals, or businesses, who are stolen from shouldn't expect shouldn't be entitled to the support of the police that their taxes contribute towards.

But don't worry, it's not going to happen. Tenants will probably always be free to disappear into the unknown without paying rent they owe should they choose to without any legal comeback at all. And that is why landlords will continue to minimise the risk to their business by not dealing with people who are statistically high risk.

Also, in order for an act to be seen as theft, a person has to take property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving them of it. I can think of many ways in which merely occupying a property that one has rights to does not meet that definition, thankfully, and so your batshit idea will never have legs.

The problem with renting in the UK is categorically not that landlords don't have enough rights but rather that tenants do not.

and I don't see any reason why individuals, or businesses, who are stolen from shouldn't expect shouldn't be entitled to the support of the police that their taxes contribute towards.

See above. It isn't theft. It isn't stealing. It's a contractual matter, not a criminal one. It doesn't even come close to meeting the legal definition of theft. That's why the police aren't involved.

Well, that and the fact that they have around 11 billionty other more pressing matters to attend to than fuck-arsing around protecting the financial interests of parasites.

You don't need to explain the law of it to me, oddly enough I do vaguely understand it. I just don't agree with it, and I'm pointing out why landlords are understandably reluctant to rent to statistically high risk people to posters that don't seem to see the valid reason why mortgage and insurance companies state no DSS.

It's bizarre how you think that entering into a contract to fairly provide a service makes someone a parasite, but someone who breaks that contract potentially costing someone else thousands is fair game.

I'm glad you're not my tenant.

Are there any other contractual matters that you would like to see criminalised and have the police involved in? For eg, if someone rented a car and their cheque bounced, do you think the police should show up on their doorstep? If they didn't pay their childminder, do you think that childminder should be able to call the police and have them arrested? If they got a builder in to do some work and didn't settle up at the end, should the builder call 999 and send the boys in blue round? Or is it just breach of contract that affects you that should result in the other party being carted off to jail?