To wonder why there isn't more outrage about the Nursey Education Grant?

[sleeplessbunny]

I feel incredibly frustrated about the way this scheme is administered. Our amazing, wonderful childminder was planning on entering the scheme as it would help out a few of her families, she went through inspections etc to get approved a few months back. However, after looking through the mountains of admin and then realising that the funding rate is 3.39 an hour and that she cannot legally ask for parents to top this up, she has, of course, backed out.

I am left feeling really angry about the whole thing, obviously not at the childminder, she can't run a business like that and I completely understand, but the whole scheme is a farce. Looking at local nurseries, they get round it by having a highly complex and frankly manipulative charging structure to keep them legal while minimising their risk of being underfunded. In fact I suspect some nurseries take it the other way and are making money out of the NEG, but that is hard to back up.

Basically, the only places locally where my kids can access NEG funded places are the pre-schools, whose hours are pretty inconvenient at best. I do understand that the money is intended for education, not childcare, but it is advertised as available through day nurseries and childminders. The reality, however, is that it's just not accessible to many working parents.

Maybe everyone else knows this already, but the penny has only just dropped for me and I am incensed. Free places for 3 and 4 year olds??? MY ARSE.

Why can't the scheme define an amount of funding rather than a number of hours? That simple change would enable childminders and nurseries to pass it on to parents in a straightforward manner that doesn't put them at financial risk.

It's a total farce. Here in Cardiff you only get 10 hours a week and it has to be used at a school nursery or approved pre school, cannot be used at a private nurseries or cm. You can access wraparound care with a cm but the ones I met, I wouldn't have left my child with (I have had 2 excellent cm previously, both of whom provided education as well as childcare).

Essentially, NEG in Wales is a perk for those where neither parent or only one parent works. Ds was also entitled to 1 to 1 for those hours due to having SEN but they could only taken in the school nursery. We were lucky in that there are charities that will fund 1 to 1 in private nurseries, but we had to fight for it.

I would also totally disagree that children aren't being provided with education by a cm. Their ratio for under 5 is 1:3 whereas in school nursery it is 1:8. My old cm was very good at tracking ds development and implementing salt recommendations. It always seems a bit of a stealth cm bash when threads like this come up.

COmpletely agree JADS, I also feel that in our area the only people who can properly access NEG are those working part time or with a SAHP so they can take their kids to the preschools. Working parents are forced to use CMs who can't afford to provide NEG or nurseries who have such weird pricing structures for NEG that the parent sees little or no benefit anyway.

And yes our CM does a fantastic job of educating my children. I love her to death and am so thankful we have places with her.

Yes but most of the complaints on here are about using it with CMs. If it's an NEG then it should only be accessible via a few places and not just randomnly via a childcare provider. I have no issue with CMs at all, I didn't always use nurseries for my DC - but just because someone is a CM or a nanny for example, it doesn't mean that they should be able offer care incorporating the use of this, when they are monitored in the same way in terms of education provision and again, because most people are wanting it to offload their kids for a few hours - not because they are fussed about them receiving an early education.

when they are not monitored in the same way...

bamboo CMs are OFSTED registered and can only access the NEG if they apply, are inspected and show that they are providing a suitable level of education, monitoring and record keeping. In that respect they have to meet exactly the same conditions as a nursery/preschool providing NEG places.

I know they are OFSTED registered. I am a working mother with 4 DC and I've been through the whole realm of childcare options over the years.

I think it's utterly disingenuous for people to suggest they can't access free education for their child, when what they want is subsidised childcare. I have no problem with that either, but say it like it is.

It is also ridiculous to suggest the learning environment in a CMs house is hte same as in an official pres-school setting. If it can by done by a caregiver in their sitting room in the home, then a parent can do it too,

In fact I suspect some nurseries take it the other way and are making money out of the NEG, but that is hard to back up

I just wondered why you thought this, the neg amount would be the same rate regardless of the setting, and is set by you local council. Unfortunately nurseries get round it by charging more for before and after the funded sessions, and pre school often extend their hours so they can charge for the extra, but I don't think either benefit from NEG

YANBU. I was really frustrated to discover that in my area there are very few places where the grant actually equals a free 15 hours. I only know of two local schools that have a nursery attached where you can get the free hours, but they aren't schools my DC would be going to, and it seems you have to get on the list years in advance. I looked around quite a lot and the best I could do is a preschool programme where the difference is £9.15 per session, which is not cheap but at least tax-free as we use vouchers from DH's work to pay the balance. The private nurseries I looked at were not transparent about how they apply the funding, and would have been still been hundreds per month out of pocket for the minimum number of sessions!

In wales you don't get to use it in a nursery or CM at all.

Pre school only.

Our childminder gets £4.02 an hour from NEG but charges £4.50 which is average for the area.

The funding comes via the local council but I'd be curious to know if they get a grant for this from central government. I always thought the rate was the same across the country and government were just being stingey. I might ask a few questions at work next week.

I totally agree with the comment about it mostly benefiting parents where one doesn't work full time. It's quite difficult to find fulltime childcare 5 days a week and many nurseries are sessional. I suppose the argument is that the funding is to benefit the children's education and ensure all children have some access to pre-school education but it's certainly not helping parents into full time work.

but it's certainly not helping parents into full time work

is it meant to? Or is it meant to provide an education for the child?

Is the Nursery Education Grant just the free 15 hours a week thing that was around when my big two were small 5 years ago?

YABU if it is. I thought the point was to give kids access to/get kids used to learning and playing in a big group in prep for school.

As great as I'm sure childminders can be, they don't really meet the purpose of what I understand the scheme to be for.

I use a cm and my DD accessed her free 15 hours education at the nursery attached to our local primary school. DH and I both work. We had to pay our cm the same as before DD attended as she couldn't fill that space, and our DD loved her nursery school. Your cm could probably drop off and pick up from a school nursery so your child CAN access the free education, you just aren't saving on childcare costs.

Agree with other posters that what you're really after is a subsidy on childcare rather than 15 hours of nursery education - which as has been said is fine, I do think childcare should be subsidised whatever the child's age - but it isn't the purpose of the NEG.

If a CM setting isn't giving my child an education, why are CMs allowed, and encouraged, to apply to use NEG funding? I get the feeling the government doesn't actually know what this funding is really for.

Our local "preschool" is actually a playgroup in the village hall and a bunch kids running around manically for an hour and half before being herded in for a snack and a song. I do not believe for one second that would be a better preparation for school than the environment my CM provides. I expect a lot are much better than that, but my CM can't easily get to them.

But I'm getting away from the point really. I get the impression it is in fact only a minority who are annoyed by the way the scheme works. FOr others either the funding gap is lower in their area or they believe it should only be available to preschool type settings anyhow. I am seeing this as more of a local issue now. Thanks everyone for commenting.

It worked for me as both children went to nursery attached to the primary school for 2 years each for 2.5 hours a day (Scotland only did 420 hours a year and have only just released the 600 hours). I only had to pay snack money for them.

My childminder did wrap around care for ds at £4.50 an hour.