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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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To think this misses the point about costs of childcare?

999 replies

adsy · 03/09/2014 07:41

"Critics have complained that homes where one parent stays at home to look after children will not benefit."

This is in response to the new scheme where parents will get 20% of childcare costs paid for by the government.
I'm a CM and all for subsidies of any sort to help out parents, but other than the odd day when you might need to go for an interview etc. I can't see why a stay at home parent needs to get childcare subsidies or am I missing a major point here?!

OP posts:
LittlePeaPod · 03/09/2014 15:57

I am currently a SAHP (on ML). If I choose not to return to work I would not expect the government to give me childcare subsidies. I would be making a life choice to stop working and I don't expect anyone else to pay me for the privilege.

ArsenicFaceCream · 03/09/2014 15:58

I have to say, I haven't seen any nursery owners driving cheap cars recently.

ArsenicFaceCream · 03/09/2014 16:00

Tax planning mini. I bet the owner/director/managers get blardy good salaries and dividends and aforementioned top of the range cars.

ArsenicFaceCream · 03/09/2014 16:02

I am currently a SAHP (on ML).

What's one of them then? Hmm

If I choose not to return to work I would not expect the government to give me childcare subsidies.

Not really something anyone's arguing for Hmm

morethanpotatoprints · 03/09/2014 16:10

How can you be a sahp on maternity leave.
You have a job that's being kept open for you for a year.

Newsflash.

SAHP someone who doesn't work.

ArsenicFaceCream · 03/09/2014 16:16

Mrs Potato I do believe we are about to be treated to an amateur temporary 'SAHM' waxing lyrical. All so very Marie Antoinette @ Petit Trianon, don't you find? I don't think I can bear it. I'm orf.

JassyRadlett · 03/09/2014 16:44

Tax-deductibility of some of the costs of employment (which is what childcare vouchers currently do on a less universal basis) isn't a new concept though it's less widespread here than elsewhere.

While this isn't a proper tax deduction (because administrative simplicity was preferable, I assume), that's what the principle behind it was, from what I've read. So it's a refund of part of the taxes the Exchequer receives as a result of that employment. It shouldn't be a surprise that a government dedicated to reducing the deficit should, rightly or wrongly, should choose to support increased employment and thus tax revenues.

For the record, I think tax allowances should be fully transferable.

But frankly, if this policy gives more people - mainly women - the choice over whether to work or stay at home, I think it's a good thing.

LinesThatICouldntChange · 03/09/2014 16:47

YANBU
Personally I never benefited from any childcare subsidies because my children were in childcare before they were introduced, but no way do I begrudge them. Having paid every penny of childcare for our 3 ourselves I know how much of a financial hit it is. The govt supporting people who are working to remain in their career, (which often provides valuable much needed services to wider society too) is a positive thing IMO. Being a SAHP is a perfectly valid choice if you feel it's what you want, but you don't need childcare subsidies... It kind of defeats the point of being at home!

morethanpotatoprints · 03/09/2014 17:02

Lines

I agree with you on principle because as a sahm I wouldn't have needed/don't need help with childcare, but there may be people who are a sahp who do need childcare.
I think it is wrong to wipe out a whole heap of people just because some don't apply to the subject discussed.
I think childcare should be free for people who are job seeking whilst they attend interviews. Free for sp with no family to support them, just for a break once in a while. Free for people who care for a partner and have small children. There are disadvantaged families who do need some sort of break from their children.

LittlePeaPod · 03/09/2014 17:12

I am not working currently. My point was I am at home and if I decide to not return to work, I don't expect anyone to pick up my childcare bill. As far as I am concerned been a SAHP is a life choice and if I choose not to return but decide I want additional childcare then DH and I pick up the bill not the government.

LinesThatICouldntChange · 03/09/2014 17:31

I'm not sure how the practicalities of free childcare to enable a SAHP to attend a job interview would work... When you are working, you invest a lot of time and emotional energy in finding the optimum care provider, building a relationship, settling your child over a period of time... I cant see how ad hoc childcare would work. Also nurseries work to tight ratios and aren't going to staff an empty place on the basis that occasionally a SAHP will want it for an interview...
I have no objection to childcare costs being covered to enable a parent to attend interview btw- it's a legitimate cost of that person getting back into the workplace . I'm just not sure how it would work in practice. I can imagine a lot of SAHP complaining that they couldn't possibly leave their child with a stranger as a one off!

Totally disagree with the idea of free childcare just to give parents a break... And if it ever comes to pass, no doubt some SAHP would still complain that WOHP were getting free 'break from the kids' hours on top of their actual 'childcare due to working' hours!

Sapat · 03/09/2014 17:39

I am on ML at the moment, which is why I MNet when breastfeeding!

I do consider myself lucky, I have DH, 3 kids, a job I love and a house. But then I worked bloody hard to get to where I am. 8 years at Uni, followed by lots of shitty jobs that barely paid the bills, slowly making my way up. That is why I can't take a career break beyond ML, because if I go, I won't get it back. When my job was advertised when I was about to go on maternity leave the first time, I was scared by how many women who were once in more senior positions to me were applying for for my 9 month maternity cover after a career break. Not one got to the interview stage because the field I work in you have to keep on top of professional development. I thought, shit, that could be me. So no part time, no career break. 3rd time round, I was so senior they could not even apply. Not a single female applicant had children. In my team, all the women (about half the team) are my age. None have kids (but all the men bar one do), they either don't think they can afford it, or they have left it too late. That, I think is sad because they are lovely & intelligent women. Assuming I retire at 67, that is another 30 years at work, I want to be doing something worthwhile and that I enjoy.

As for my neighbour, I wasn't being snide, she is just an example of a SAHM that I know and respect, rather than making a blanket statement about all SAHM. She is doing what is best for her family. They are financially better off if she doesn't work because she cannot earn more than Childcare would cost, but her husband earns enough. For them, it is a no brainer, though now that both her kids are at school, she bemoans the lack of jobs available to her, so she is stuck because she needs to earn a certain amount in order for a job to be worthwhile, but she can't get those jobs because she hasn't worked in 10 years.

Everyone choses what is best for them and their family. I seriously considered being SAHM when DC1 was diagnosed with sone SN (very mild ASD), but when DH lost his job, it scared me and I thought I never wanted to be that vulnerable and risk losing our house. I just wished my parents lived closer so I could get free Childcare occasionally, or just a helping hand!

It sometime pisses me off that when I work 50 hours a week and travel 3 hours a day to London and back and basically, in effect, earn just £200 a month when we pay nursery fees. And I don't think nurseries are rolling in it, quite the opposite. Owners earn ok perhaps, but not the staff. Once I was on the late train home, having left the office late, heavily pregnant and I was reading the Evening Standard on poverty in London. This woman with 10 kids was complaining that she could not afford to take her kids to the cinema. Yep, me neither. Yet she was the one living in Central London and I was the one commuting 3 hours because I could not afford to live in London. I always wanted a big family, but 3 what we can (just) afford, so 3 it is.

RufusTheReindeer · 03/09/2014 18:13

little

For some people being a SAHP is a life choice, for some it's a necessity

For some people being a WOHP is a life choice, for some it's a necessity

I understand why some SAHP feel devalued

ArsenicFaceCream · 03/09/2014 18:18

little

SAHPs haven't asked for subsidised childcare AFAIK.

The argument is that tax could be spent in a way that benefits all parents to spend on anything they like.

OR things could be evened up by bringing in a separate, different tax break that would benefit families containing a SAHP (such as transferable tax allowance).

LittlePeaPod · 03/09/2014 18:22

Arsenic I was simply responding to the Op original post from a personal prospective and nothing else.

I can't see why a stay at home parent needs to get childcare subsidies or am I missing a major point here?!

ArsenicFaceCream · 03/09/2014 18:23

Oh ok. You don't want to discuss then?

LittlePeaPod · 03/09/2014 18:29

I have not had a chance to look into further as I am at home looking aftermour 8 month old who I am about to give a bath to and put to bed before making dinner as my DH has been out since 4am and is due back at 7.30. So I am sure you will understand my limitiom in terms of time for a debate right now. Wink

ArsenicFaceCream · 03/09/2014 18:31

Ok Smile

girlwithgreeneyes11 · 03/09/2014 18:36

But assume if you do return to work you would welcome someone picking up some of the bill. little

morethanpotatoprints · 03/09/2014 18:43

So if a doctor suggests a patient might need some respite from their child due to mh problems such as pn depression, you think they should go without that help if they can't afford it.
What about people who are full time carers with small children? Not even one day a week for a break?

Bloody hell there are some heartless people out there.

Missunreasonable · 03/09/2014 18:54

The argument is that tax could be spent in a way that benefits all parents to spend on anything they like.

This x 1000

LittlePeaPod · 03/09/2014 19:12

Try and answer a few questions between putting DD to bed and starting dinner.

Rufus I do agree that where there are exceptional circumstances (disability etc.) then the parents should be offered some form of support however if the SAHP (male or female) is choosing to stay at home and there are no exceptional circumstances then no they shouldn't get any money.

Girl I don't argue that parents returning to work shouldn't get support. I fully support additional childcare support for those returning to work however I do think this should be limited dependant on the couples earning band. On this basis I do not believe DH and I should get any additional financial support should I return to work.

Arsenic. I must admit I haven't looked into or even considered the tax discussion you mention above. I will try and do this when I get the time.

EmeraldLion · 03/09/2014 19:26

*How can you be a sahp on maternity leave.
You have a job that's being kept open for you for a year.

Newsflash.

SAHP someone who doesn't work*

Who said you get to choose exclusivity over the term SAHM? Give me a break Hmm

I took extended maternity leave after ds2 and was off work for 15 months. Guess what...for 15 months, I stayed home with a toddler and newborn, not a pip of working out of the home at all.

So for 15 months I was a mum that stayed at home...eureka! A SAHM, if you will Hmm Not difficult surely?

EmeraldLion · 03/09/2014 19:32

Mrs Potato I do believe we are about to be treated to an amateur temporary 'SAHM' waxing lyrical

That is so spiteful and patronising it almost took my breath away.

The equivalent would be a WOHM patting you on the head and telling you kindly what it's like to have a real job, in the real world and what it's like to contribute to society. How would that make you feel?

LittlePeaPod · 03/09/2014 19:34

Emerald I know.. I couldn't even be arsed to read that one never mind respond!