to think there's something wrong with my 6 year old?

[ohmychrist]

We've had days of her tantrums, screams, door slams and telling us she hates us.

She does nothing unless she can see a direct benefit to herself. For example I asked her to pass me a phone, and she just said "No".

The she's always been a terrible whiner and I'm ground down by it now.

No other children seem to be so full of venom. I dread the teenage years.

There's something psychologically wrong with her, isn't there? We're strict and send her to her room without hesitation. I'm sick of shouting and stress.

Once you've finished sending her to her room and everyone is a bit calmer, do you sit down together to work out how the situation could have been handled better? What could she have done different to prevent it escalating, what could you have done? Then put in place a plan for next time.
I suspect that she is currently doing as you do (especially re: compromise and negotiated solutions) rather than doing what you say, but as children learn by copying their parents that is to be expected.

Remember that you can force other people to change, you can only change the way you react to a situation and hope that your new behaviour leads to a change in the dynamic.

Argggh! can't force people to change.

I dunno...its hard to really get a good picture from reading the thread but reading the bit where you said please pass me the phone and she said no and you counted to 5...that sort of got my back up but I cant' quite work out why, it just sounds like an unpleasant atmosphere.

I have no idea if this is relevant but I have sometimes asked my son (6 years old) to do something and it goes more like this:

"Hey sweetie, could you do me a favour and pass me that phone over there?"

"Arghhrrrwwww....I'm BUSY why can't YOU get it mummy!"

"I know but I'm all set up here and I need to make a phonecall! Please? Think of all the nice things mummy does for you!"

"arghhrrrr okayyyyyyyyy"

"Thanks sweetie

My DD is almost seven and is very like this at times.
Utterly utterly defiant, shrieks, tantrums, sulks....
Drives me to despair.
I find ignoring the secondary behaviour to be my strongest 'weapon' or tactic.
So, please pick up the toys from the floor' will be met with a flat 'no' and a sulk.
DH will then get dragged in to a massive battle.
I shrug and say 'OK but if I have to do it then you won't be bringing toys into the living room tomorrow'
This will be met with shrieking and tantrums but I just walk away and go and do something entirely different for ten minutes.
Nine times out of ten it will be done when I return.
Things I do find with DD I that she gets overwhelmed by big tasks so when tidying up we have to be very specific about it. I also find she does tasks better if I am there.
However DD is being investigated for an ASC. DS has an ASC too and the years from 6 to 9 were his worst.
Staying calm (which is bloody hard I know) is the most effective tool I have.

My 7yo DD is the same. It seems to be worse when we have any change - eg when we were on holiday she was a horror for the first few days and then settled down.

I think Molly's post above sums it up - DD is actually much happier with a routine which DH and I aren't great at. I just worry that while we do cuddles etc and talking about things with naughty step when it gets really bad, that we're being inconsistent and not following through anything properly.

Google wilful child and how to deal with it.

I have a willful child and really found some interesting things about how to deal with him.

I was enabling some of the behaviour and punishments don't work that well with these children as they are not receptive to that form of control.

I've jobs to do but will pop back with some links.

That was my first thought Tatty Are you being the adult OP? Do you rise above, avoid getting into arguments and pick your battles?

Yes, you need to be firm but you also need to try to create a situation where he will want to please you-so take time to listen to him, play with him and praise any behaviour that you do want to see. If he starts to think that you dislike him and life is just a battle of wills things will deteriorate and he will try to find ways of getting back at you. However he does need to follow instructions and be polite-so immediate consequence if he doesn't.
Also pick your battles and only give the instructions that you need to-so that there is more chance of him complying.
It sounds like hard work-but quite a few 6 year olds are like that

Just to add I think there are definitely different personality types and some children are more wilful, others are more blasé, some are very serious, etc etc. Some have this big need to please at the root of their personality, some couldn't give a damn (you could argue this is a better trait in the long run once they are an adult!)

ohmychrist Sorry to hear of your concern and stress. I´m not a medical or pyschological professional but my laywoman´s advice would be not to worry and just continue to provide your loving and stable home environment.

Possibly you could keep a diary of your daughter´s tantrums so that you have an objective measurement of whether they are getting worse or better, and more or less frequent? If the movement goes towards worse / more frequent over a month or two you could then consider going to the doctor. You could also look for possible triggers, e.g. if she eats a certain food does it have a positive or negative effect, or sees a particular friend, listens to music, does sport, etc.

My son turned 6 at the start of June and certainly he has some male and female friends who display similar behaviour (although only seeing them as a friend´s mum I don´t have a full picture, of course).

Good luck, lots of love to you and your family.

The funniest thing is when my son actually wants something like a cable for a device or something and I tell him where one is and its upstairs and he throws his hands up and says "arghrrrr why do I have to do EVERYTHING" when its him who wants the chuffing device in the first place

Tatty, is he copying your behaviour at all? I find that DD has opened my eyes to my worst qualities by picking up my bad habits, and I find it really hard to deal with, and until I notice what is happening we sort of spark off each other and make every things worse.

My DD is a teenager now so I do sympathise ! When she was that age I found tantrums /playing up we're directly related to how worried / upset she felt. And actually it was often triggered by me being really busy and not having time with her (juggling work and family!). So actually for me increasing the time we had together / doing nice things like baking or going to the park etc would often lead to a much calmer happier DD. I also stepped right back from the battles, I worked out what the things I was really prepared to have a fight over and stuck to my guns on those, but backed off on things that actually don't matter. They are really learning what the boundaries are so if you do need to give them more choice but sensible choice. I also used judicious amounts of rewards -working on the carrot and stick principle eg if you do this we can then do that afterwards. Finally I started following advice (sorry can't remember the book) about reflecting back empathy, eg saying back what they have said eg 'I'm sorry you feel like you hate me but we have to do x now' -it sounds a bit odd but does work since you are recognising their feelings, whilst sticking to your guns. The things is they often don't get to feel listened to by adults so it does help defuse the situation. And I'd echo the posters above who say stay calm, if you start shouting it all ratchets up and goes haywire!

Good luck - it does get better honestly

I had this with my daughter and unfortunately, it turns out she has a personality disorder (BPD) .

Looking back now - because I did not have any experience with mental illness, I completely mishandled this by getting stricter and ignoring her tantrums and her lashing out, when what she needed was for me to ask her about her feelings and validate how she felt.

I am so ashamed of how I was, I treated her as a normal child when she had special needs! I know how to handle her correctly now she's an adult but she retains a lot of issues with how I brought her up, people with this kind of disorder can never forget and will put their own spin on the memories too so that a telling off will be remembered as abuse.

I am only saying this just in case this is the case here and I can help prevent something similar happening to yourself as the most skilled parenting from an early age can make a real difference in the case of a person with BPD it needs to be done with complete acknowledgement and understanding of the special needs in terms of parenting, obviously it usually goes unrecognised until teens and then a huge learning curve takes place by the parents who are then desperately trying to understand the illness and rectify the relationship.

I honestly don't think it will be the case for you as your dd may just be highly-strung but please, please look into this and it will do no harm to validate her feelings in any case, after all, no matter how unreasonable someone else's feelings can seem to another they are always valid to that person and how soothing it is to have one's feelings respected and understood and how healing for ANY relationship to acknowledge and really hear another. People with BPD NEED this more than anyone.

Please don't make my mistakes - if I could turn back time I would do it ALL again with complete awareness in a heartbeat!

Haven't read the entire thread, but I'm not sure about stepping up the punishments. There were times when my dd was pretty disobedient and at one time I realised that she actually had stopped loving me and without that love there was no incentive to obey me.

So I would cut down on the punishment, focusing on just one behaviour I would not accept and letting the other misbehaviour go, until I had corrected that one thing. Then start on the next.

DD1 was like this when she was 6 and we found that staying calm, sticking to routine and doing the 'stuck record' worked really well - she sorted herself out in about 6 weeks.

She's now 13 and one of the easiest teenagers ever - she gets the usual eyeroll-flounce-tearfulness going on, but she takes herself off to calm down when she feels a temper coming on and most of the time she is amazingly mature, selfless and caring. Nothing to do with our parenting, just her temperament. I hope your DD turns out that way too, it's hard.

When you asked her to pass the phone and she refused, what did you do? Sending her to her room, banning television etc. is no good and far too extreme; you simply make her do it. Everything stops until she obeys; eyeball to eyeball confrontation; you remain calm but determined until she does what you wish. As she has reached the age of six without being made to obey you there will be a battle but one you are quite capable of winning; school has achieved it simply because they expect to be obeyed; you must do the same.

she hates school and the other children are mean. Loads of rubbish

What if it's not a load of rubbish? What if the other children are mean to her and she is having social rather than academic problems at school? Isn't it possible that she is taking out her frustrations at home where she feels more in control?

I think you sound very harsh to be honest and you are assuming a lot of negative motivations behind her behaviour.

I also very much agree with TattyDevine. And I'm very mindful of the saying that a sign of madness is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. You've tried being firm and strict with her, and it doesn't work, so being more strict isn't actually going to make things better.

Something is upsetting her and making her angry. You're her mum - you need to find out what it is. Listen to her. Spend time with her - play with her, read stories to her, do an activity like making cakes with her (I don't know if you do these things already).

Incidentally, I have a willful child and have had a longstanding difficulty, which is that my DH meets confrontation with more confrontation, and it all quickly escalates into a full-scale row; I take Tatty's approach and meet confrontation with sweetness. It works much better.

Oh, and pick your battles. Really. Don't have a go at her over every tiny thing. Just focus on the really important stuff.

Try reading 'Peaceful Parents, Happy Kids' by Laura Markham and look at her website aha parenting.com. There's some great stuff on there about how to really connect with your children and avoid using punishment (which they resent and makes them even less likely to do what you want). Really worth a look.

I would second "how to talk to children .." .

We all wish that our children would be perfectly behaved low maintenance angels. (ok I don't ). Some children do just moan.

Some children are highly intelligent and need constant stimulation or they misbehave.

Some children need firm boundaries constantly or they misbehave.

Some children are ill and misbehave.

I would say it's worth checking illness as well as keeping her busy, staying calm (if she sees she can't upset you she'll soon stop).

Maybe threatening to send her to childcare for the rest of the holidays will help. I have one dd who was exactly like that, she needs lots of stimulation and someone to boss her around amusingly! She's changed massively since we discovered that.

Good luck op!

I don't know if this is any help but I try not to have the attitude that my children must "obey" me and that I must "control" them.

This of course does not mean that they run around trashing things and annoying the general public, or anything like that, but it hasn't been an issue.

Its more like a gentle guidance and modelling of the kinds of behaviours you want to live amongst.

I wouldn't want to have to obey my husband, or him me, and I know children are not adults yet and in a sense don't have the same rights as they don't always know what is best, and they need the structure to feel safe, however things like handing you a phone I think is a good example of "don't sweat the small stuff".

What would you do if she wasn't there? You'd get the phone yourself.

Would it kill her to give it to you? Of course not. Why wouldn't she if she's right there? Because I guess she's asserting her right to choose. Does she have the right to choose whether to be helpful and sweet? She does, because she's not being helpful or sweet unless she chooses to do it, really.

I'd be tempted to meet that kind of thing with a simple "well don't be asking me for any favours" and when they say "can I have a drink" you can do the whole "errr how about "no"" thing with a grin and just remind them in a practical way that a bit of give and take with regards to helping each other out goes a long way.

BUT my children are not terribly wilful necessarily so I might be talking absolute bollix. There was always a stressful atmosphere in my house growing up due to various factors and I seem to really prioritise "atmosphere" in the house over other factors like compliance, obedience etc, yet find these things are not big issues despite not prioritising them. Important stuff where they need to do as they are told, they do - safety issues, gong to bed, cleaning teeth etc, they are the things that really matter at that age...