AIBU to want to get engaged?!?

[Booboosmummy22]

My dp & I have been together nearly 5 years (something he pointed out today) and whilst I have no desire to get married any time soon, possibly never, I would love to get engaged. (I sort of see that as basically married just don't want all the fuss of a big day & none of the legal complications if you break up)

we're 22 & 23 have an ASD ds (3) and have definitely had a full 5 years of richer/ poorer, better/ worse, sickness & health and have managed to stick together and work through any difficulties we've had. Must point out we are very happy and have been stable our whole relationship (just outside situations that have been difficult)

So I put the suggestion forward tonight subtlety and he freaked out saying its way to much of a commitment and the thought of it scares him even though he knows I wouldn't be pushing for a wedding. I fully trust him & know we're both in this for the long run but I just want something a bit more official (albeit socially rather than legally) Aibu?

[flowery]

"I don't see what the big deal is. If the OP wants to get engaged then why not."

Erm, because her boyfriend thinks that even just calling themselves "engaged" with no intention of ever getting married is more of a commitment to the OP than he is prepared to make.

[MaryWestmacott]

flowery - that's the thing, the OP is assuming her DP believes her that he's going to allowed to just be in a never ending engagement - it's ok for him to ask her to marry him without ever expecting that they will get married. It could be that he's got more of a normal attitude to engagement, that it's leading to marriage, and he doesn't want marriage. I would assume if a couple got engaged, they would get married, they will then be under pressure from family to set a date.

Now, if he's not prepared to get married, not that they can't afford it or need to wait until a point in the future, then that's more of an issue. But not wanting to 'play at being engaged' is rather a normal reaction.

It's a weird thing to want, an engagement without a marriage. If you both don't want marriage, then just have the courage of your convictions.

[combust22]

flowery- yes, but that's a different issue. The OP is young, the boyfriend doesn't want to commit and "(just outside situations that have been difficult) " there are some difficulties. Comittment phobes don't do it for me either.

[SweetsForMySweet]

Op has said:
"Also the commitment before moving in/ child etc
Child came first
Then the house
So the whole traditional relationship time line was fucked as soon as it began lol"

If by this Op you mean it was an unplanned pregnancy, I don't think that an engagement ring is going to "fix" your insecurities that your dp is only with you because you got pregnant. I think your dp has already shown his commitment to you in the fact that he chose to stay with you when you got pregnant. If he didn't love/care for you, he would have left already, he could still be a parent without being with you. Eitherway, even if he did agree to get "engaged" or marry you now, it will be tainted again by the fact that you and possibly others are putting pressure on him to do so before he is ready. At 23, a lot of guys are not emotionally ready don't want to get married, they are young, even if you have been together for 5 years, you are both still young. If your dp didn't want to be with you, he would leave. You do not need a ring to prove to you or anyone else that he is commited to you and your relationship, he is there with you, he is being faithful to you, he is loving and supporting you. Other people's opinion of why you and your dp are together are THEIR opinion NOT fact. Professionals (as I've said before in previous post) do not care what your relationship status is, they care that your ds is being cared for and having his needs met. Don't ruin what you have with your dp because of insecurities or other people's opinions, your dp loves you. If a commitment is more important to you than your dp, could you have a humanistic ceremony to celebrate your relationship and make wills to cover any legal stuff rather than getting legally married. Whatever happens, I hope you can both meet eachother half ways and come to a suitable compromise. Your dp might be open to getting engaged in the future. If you want polar oposite things, you can deal with that when the time comes.

FWIW, there is no point saying the op should have got married before moving in and having children. Real life is not always as straight forward as in the movies. In a perfect world everything would go exactly as we planned but it doesn't always happen like that.

[BackforGood]

Combust22 I agree with you, it's absolutely none of our business if the OP wants to call herself engaged or not, or wear a ring or not, however - she asked our opinions. That's why people are giving them. Of course it's not an important thing in terms of world problems, but she asked what we all thought.

[StrawberryMouse]

I don't see how he can have a child with you yet not "feel ready" to get engaged. Children are a far bigger commitment, they tie you to someone forever!

[combust22]

Strawberry- do they? My friend hasn't seen her ex ( and the father of her 3 kids ) for seven years.

[StrawberryMouse]

But he will always be the father of her children. They created a person together.

[XiCi]

All this 'children are the biggest commitment' is just bullshit. It may be how you see things but others don't. Otherwise there wouldn't be so many single parent families, children who have no contact whatsoever with a parent, families where there are many children to multiple partners etc etc. As a poster said earlier having a child is not a commitment to a partner but to that child, and even then it's something that is not always taken seriously as combusts post above illustrates

[LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726]

OP and partner aren't what I'd call 'young parents' anyway, I can't imagine that anybody would be looking down on them for their age or marital status. I still think that this is something that the OP very much wants. I'm sorry for her that it's like pulling teeth because if you have to apply leverage to get something that should be freely given, what's the point?

If the legal side of things is all tied up elsewhere the great. At least OP and the children are protected.

OP... think about what it is that YOU want and be honest with your partner about that. If commitment is important to you then it just is; you owe nobody an explanation for that, it's how you feel.

[StrawberryMouse]

But as a pp mentioned, divorce rates are shocking these days, a wedding is no dignifier that you are together for life by any means.

I didn't marry DH until we already had two toddlers together and the wedding seemed like a mere formality by that point, we were already completely committed through the family we had made together. Only my experience obviously.

[Only1scoop]

Yabu ....no point if you are not going to marry.

[WhatsGoingOnEh]

My Aibu was why would he freak out over a ring when we basically live like a married couple

This is backwards thinking! The fact that you "basically live like a married couple" IS the reason why he doesn't want to marry you or just get engaged. Because he already is. He already gets all the nice bits (sex, support, seeing his DC every day, not being lonely) without any of the bad bits (legal responsibilities, financial responsibility, not easily being able to leave).

Was it an unplanned pregnancy? It really sounds like this relationship us something both of you fell into due to circumstances, not a decision you both consciously made. I'm afraid he could easily be going along with this until he decides what he really wants to do with his life.

I'm glad you gad this conversation. Even though it's thrown up some uncomfortable truths, it's GOOD you know that he has no immediate plans to commit to you in ANY viable way. Now you can decide what YOU want to do, knowing the facts.

[RonaldMcDonald]

I dunno about engagement
I got my ring two years after I was married from my MiL's safe
I'm not arsed and divorced now maybe it was the lack of engagement.....

[BOFster]

I'm wondering if the guy just feels too young to publicly 'settle down'? How many of his friends and peer group are married, OP?

If that's the case, I can't see that an unconventional hippy-style non-legal 'commitment ceremony' is going to fly either: the cringe factor would be too much for most people in their twenties, I think.

Basically, I believe he loves you and the baby, but doesn't feel grown up enough to relinquish his 'one of the lads' status. He might get there, he might not. Either way, right now, you are not on the same page, and you need to discuss it properly.

People here will be thinking practically about the legal protection you are sensible to expect, which is why they are discouraging you from writing off the idea of getting married by just settling for engagement. From your posts though, it comes across that perhaps even you don't feel 'grown up enough' to expect marriage- or is it that you think you'd be pushing him too far? I get the feeling that what you are really looking for is a romantic gesture from him rather than a legal commitment at this stage- is that right? Could it be that you feel less secure than you'd like to in your relationship?

It seems to me that you are looking at expecting marriage as the equivalent of asking for the moon on a stick, so you'd be prepared to settle for less just so long as you get something from him that looks hopeful. If he's uncomfortable with even that much, then I suspect that SolidGoldBrass is right that this relationship doesn't have legs in the long term. You will only know that though if you both talk honestly about it and what you both want for the future.

[Booboosmummy22]

Combust22 I'm am actually laughing out loud and sweetsformysweets I think I just welled up a bit, thank you ladies

[KoalaDownUnder]

Let's be honest: neither having kids together nor getting married is as big a commitment as it used to be. People split up much more easily than they did a couple of generations ago, regardless of kids/marriage certificate. (No comment on whether that's right or wrong, just that it's a fact.)

None of us can know what your partner's reasons for not wanting to get engaged are, so we can only guess. But I think this thread has shown that lots of people would find it bizarre and/or contradictory to get engaged with no intention of getting married.

[Bohemond]

Agree with raspberryberet (fab name btw) and also with steeleye to some extent.

You are not wrong to want it but it seems a little odd - and a bit heat magazine tbh. It confers no additional status on you ie the point you made about being taken more seriously by institutions etc.

In my case I do not want to get married as I do not want to share my financial assets. However, I have been with my partner for a long time and I do have a ring that I wear on my left finger. We are not engaged and we will never be engaged. But, I am 42 and work in an industry dominated by middle aged men. I choose not to share my marital status with them; I am a Ms maiden name and will always be - but some level of conformity is required for me to operate without interest or speculation.

Perhaps a ring without the engagement is the solution?

[LittlePeaPod]

My Aibu was why would he freak out over a ring when we basically live like a married couple

Sorry if someone has already pointed this out and I missed it whilst reading through your thread Op. Regarding your point above, have you considered that actually to him marriage is very important he may not have said so? Therefore he doesn't just want to have a fluffy "engagement with no commitment to marry" but at the same time he doesn't feel ready for the level of binding commitment (legality etc.) marriage entails. Having a child is a huge commitment but to some people getting married is more of a commitment because it makes it more difficult for them to walk away when things don't quite go to plan.

His already said his not ready for that level of commitment. My question is, why would anyone that is already in a "committed" relationship, they feel is forever be so obviously against getting engaged or married? If his already as committed as you feel he is then getting engaged or married wouldn't be an issue at all. So why is he so against it?

[combust22]

little- we don't know the answer to that.

I am in the same situation. My OH has wanted to get married for years- we have been together for 18 years and have 2 kids, he has asked dozens of times but I have always said no.

[HazleNutt]

OP, if he is worried about breaking up then there are some interesting studies:

Ermisch and Pronzato (2008) cites evidence from the British Household Panel Survey (BHPS) that only about 35% of children born into a cohabiting union will live with both parents until their 16th birthday, compared with 70% of children born within a marriage. These findings are echoed in Kiernan (1999), who shows that children in Great Britain are more likely to see their parents separate if they are born to cohabiting rather than married parents, and in Benson (2006), who cites evidence from the Millennium Cohort Study (MCS) that cohabiting parents are much more likely to split up by the time a child is aged 3 than are married parents.

[LL12]

I agree with others, having a child is not the biggest commitment for a woman. To the child yes, to the woman no.

[LittlePeaPod]

Combust. I only asked because prior to meeting DH I was in a 6 year and 11 year relationship. My ex (11 year) asked me several times to marry him and I declined every time. However when I met DH in my mid/late 30s I knew that I wanted to marry him.

So is it his not ready because of his age? Or is it he doesn't think he actually wants to marry Op?

[MaryWestmacott]

Yes, marriages end, but marriage has legally tied you to your spouse for life, while you are married it confers rights and responsibilities, and if you break up, it gives a fair framework for splitting assets, rather than splitting up without that is a lot muddier.

And while there are dad's who've not seen their small dcs after a split, there are also dad's who did, who had their dcs every other weekend and nights in the week, who handed over maintenance with no fuss and were generally good non-resident parents. But from my friends, at about 14, they'd get the school bus that went to their dad's house rather than their mums to get to contact. From 16 onwards it stopped being a formal thing and when they wanted to go.

The mum and dad stopped actually having to see each other, maintenance stopped, then the next time they'd be expected to be in a room together was 10-15 years later when their dcs were getting married.

Marriage ties you to someone for life unless you decide to end it, child tie you to someone for a short period of time. The op will be 37 when her ds is 18. A child ties you to someone for a very small part of your life. If you only have a couple of dcs without massive gaps, your childrearing years are a small part of you adult life, it might not feel that way when you are in the middle of it, but it isn't a long term commitment, and it's a commitment to the child, not you.

[toomuchtooold]

OP in my opinion if you've been with someone for 5 years and have a child together you're well at, or past, the point where you should feel entitled to talk about your future. I would be looking for some pretty good explanation from him why he doesn't want to get married, never mind engaged. Be prepared though that a conversation like that may bring the relationship to an end.

Sorry this is very harsh isn't it? It's just my opinion, I may be reading it wrong. But if I was you what I really wouldn't do is hang around for another 5 years waiting for a commitment from him because, as I say, if he doesn't have some very good reason not to want to get married now, I don't think he's going to want to do it in future.